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Poll: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?
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Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

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  #181  
Old 10-25-2012, 02:40 AM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

Quote:
Originally Posted by racingiron
Those numbers alone are meaningless. What are the overall usage numbers? Then you have to get into the demographics of helmet users vs. non-users. "Simple" statistics are often deceptive.

Calling BS on this one. Unless your position is that helmets significantly reduce the likelihood of an accident, then the number of riders with or without helmets in FL is irrelevant. That's is standard misdirection.

The FL stat's are based on one thing, accidents. I review their reports every couple of years to see if things change, but rely on them because they're the most honest look at the question: If I'm involved in an accident, what is the likelihood of death or serious injury with or without a helmet. The demographics are irrelevant.

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  #182  
Old 10-25-2012, 12:38 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

There are only two times a helmet means anything at all, 1. When a junebug hits you in the face, 2. when your head hits the ground! The rest of the time it's heavy, noisy, and sweaty.
The only stick in the spokes is, you don't know when either incident will happy.
So I'll just wear mine every ride, cause I've been hit by the bug, and I've bounced off the ground (pavement)! All three wreaks my helmet wound up with deep scars in the ear and face portion.
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  #183  
Old 10-31-2012, 06:22 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

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Originally Posted by Brokerecord
10 yrs ago when Mike Foster was Gov of La.



I was never governor of La.
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  #184  
Old 11-01-2012, 01:05 AM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

Ha, ole Mike was so wealthy he put his salary back in the LA budget!
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  #185  
Old 11-04-2012, 11:17 AM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brokerecord
Ha, ole Mike was so wealthy he put his salary back in the LA budget!

Hmm, I don't know that case, but I do know that here in MA, when Mitt Romney was governor, he didn't accept his salary. That's not a bad thing by itself is it? Sounds like that is what you are implying. After Romney didn't run for re-election though, Deval Patrick came in and bought with state money, $15,000 curtains for his office and a new cadillac limo. That better than not taking the government money?
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  #186  
Old 11-04-2012, 04:43 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

I like Mike and Mitt both, voted for both. He and his son were wined and dined by HD to veto the Helmet law. The next go round he approved the Law. Deaths did go up with no Hats, but, of course no difference in accidents. The only time a helmet helps is during the accident. Makes no difference to me what the Law is, I wear mine.
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  #187  
Old 11-04-2012, 09:32 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brokerecord
I like Mike and Mitt both, voted for both. He and his son were wined and dined by HD to veto the Helmet law. The next go round he approved the Law. Deaths did go up with no Hats, but, of course no difference in accidents. The only time a helmet helps is during the accident. Makes no difference to me what the Law is, I wear mine.

:cheers. I wear mine 99% of the time too, since 99% of my riding is higher speed. Although, living in a rural area, there is about 1% of the time I would not wear one if it was legal, since the speed limit never gets above 35 and is all very low traffic area, from my house to either my brother's, or my mother's houses, or to the beer store. Pretty sad that I as a forty year old man can't decide what is safe for me or not. On a bicycle going 30mph I don't wear a helmet either. But maybe 150billion people are so smart that they know what is good for me and will vote for the tyrants who would make it a federal law that I should wear a helmet on a bicycle.
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  #188  
Old 11-05-2012, 04:59 AM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

BTW, just to be clear I live in a free state. Helmets are optional, but I still wear mine nearly all the time.

Why? For the other benefits. Bugs, wind, noise, and bluetooth. With that said, I wish the Federal government would get out of the way and allow the market to offer more options.

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  #189  
Old 12-14-2012, 04:23 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

From a purely selfish point of view I do not think helmets should be mandatory. The less folks there are around collecting Medicare and SS when I get to retirement the better.

People who won't wear a helmet on a motorcycle do not have a basic understanding of the laws of physics. Darwin had a saying "ya just can't fix stupid".
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  #190  
Old 12-14-2012, 04:29 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

I always love the "I only wear one when I am going fast" rationale.

I used to race bicycles. Lets do a little math...

Lets just say you are standing still on a bicycle at a stop sign and you are 6 feet tall. Lets say you get your feet caught in your clipless pedals. By the time your head reaches the pavement its going 11 miles an hour. 11 miles and hour is about a 5 minute mile to a runner. Imagine sticking your head down and running at 5 minute per mile pace into a brick wall. Splat!

With all that said. I do not believe helmet use should be mandated. Nor seat belt use. Just have the folks who chose not to use them give up their right to burn through my tax dollars on long term health care.
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  #191  
Old 12-14-2012, 09:12 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

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Originally Posted by sponserv
I always love the "I only wear one when I am going fast" rationale.

I used to race bicycles. Lets do a little math...

Lets just say you are standing still on a bicycle at a stop sign and you are 6 feet tall. Lets say you get your feet caught in your clipless pedals. By the time your head reaches the pavement its going 11 miles an hour. 11 miles and hour is about a 5 minute mile to a runner. Imagine sticking your head down and running at 5 minute per mile pace into a brick wall. Splat!

With all that said. I do not believe helmet use should be mandated. Nor seat belt use. Just have the folks who chose not to use them give up their right to burn through my tax dollars on long term health care.

Exactly why I don't clip into my bicycle. When I do, I wear a helmet. But that still wouldn't protect me from being impaled on something, so I just don't clip in anymore. And when I'm riding my motorcycle over 30mph I'll be wearing a helmet. But I have multiple visitees within three miles at 25mph, and I would leave my helmet at home if not for you fascist nannies.

I'll say it again. If you want to be penalized for riding at 25mph without a helmet, okay, just don't mind getting the same penalty for doing something so dangerous as riding a motorcycle in the first place.

Even the govt stats will prove you wrong. Go to USA.gov and search for the statistics on motorcycle fatalities in for example New Hampshire. You will see that half the motorcycle fatalities have helmets on.

Other than that fatal fact, I don't need a babysitter.

And where else I'll disagree with you is on the law mandating a seatbelt holding the car operator at the wheel. A moving car without an operator is FAR more likely destructive than a moving bike without an operator, which is why a seatbelt law is justifiable for car drivers, mostly to protect a bodily trauma victim, not like in the helmet case to protect mostly the wallet of a taxpayer. Since when are you nannies out to protect the wallet of the taxpayer?

As I said, if you think helmetless should be penalized, then prepare to get the same penalty just for riding.

Beyond that, it is those of you who voted for the national health-care will be attacking us all from two directions, one is the fees as you mention, that we all on here will pay for being so dangerous as to ride(is already a new national tanning bed tax, look it up), and the other attack is on the freedom of choice for yourself as a supposed "free" adult citizen.
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  #192  
Old 12-14-2012, 09:31 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

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Originally Posted by sponserv
I always love the "I only wear one when I am going fast" rationale.

I used to race bicycles. Lets do a little math...

Lets just say you are standing still on a bicycle at a stop sign and you are 6 feet tall. Lets say you get your feet caught in your clipless pedals. By the time your head reaches the pavement its going 11 miles an hour. 11 miles and hour is about a 5 minute mile to a runner. Imagine sticking your head down and running at 5 minute per mile pace into a brick wall. Splat!

With all that said. I do not believe helmet use should be mandated. Nor seat belt use. Just have the folks who chose not to use them give up their right to burn through my tax dollars on long term health care.

Should I also pay a hockey player tax? Why not? Oh, BTW, I wear head and face protection there too, just I don't want the government to start mandating it. Next I can see it they'll make me wear armor plated skates maybe.
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  #193  
Old 12-15-2012, 01:38 AM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

If one wants to ride naked (not talking about the head, but full body), then it's their decision.. (been there (almost) done that).

So what's next, full leathers "mandatory". As it is right now, states with helmet "laws", don't prevent one from jumping on their scoots in a "naked" outfit. (tank top, sandels, shorts, etc.)

The helmet may save their "brain", yet why?..seems they didn't have one to begin with??
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  #194  
Old 12-15-2012, 02:35 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

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Originally Posted by sponserv
The FEWER folks there are around collecting Medicare and SS when I get to retirement the better..

The opthalmic group my wife works with is digging through OBAMACARE one page at a time and are compiling a list of medical procedures that will not be covered after you hit 70 years of age. You will be allowed to pay out of pocket but the gov't will not pay for them. Hows that for economic equality?

I'll talk to Sherrie about getting a copy of the list and posting it here.

The future looks dim for the average working stiff in the USA.
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  #195  
Old 12-31-2012, 10:50 AM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

I'm all for mandatory helmet laws.......but right after we have mandatory healthy food consumption, mandatory exercise programs, mandatory weight loss programs, mandatory laws forbidding smoking, and mandatory laws forbidding drinking. I figure if all the ones except the helmet laws are mandatory for everyone, then we won't really have to worry much about high insurance rates, so the helmet law won't be necessary.
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  #196  
Old 01-03-2013, 09:06 AM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

As a returning rider I prefer to wear a helmet as does my wife. If a person chooses to ride down the street wearing only sandals, cut-off T-shirt, and shorts that's their choice. Likewise, if a person chooses to "gear up" before riding then that's their choice as well. As far as I'm concerned the government is far too much into our business as it is. I live in a state (Colorado) where there is no helmet law. I treasure my head and my aging body so it is my choice to get "geared up" when I ride. So to the question of "Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders" my answer is no. That's my two-cents for what it's worth.
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  #197  
Old 02-12-2013, 11:06 AM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

For the record....I said no to helmet laws. But I still feel that you just can't fix stupid. And thats OK.

I live in Daytona. If I had a nickel for every motorcyclist I have seen riding with no helmet and no gear with the tunes cranked and smoking a cigarette I would be a wealthy man. I mean really? Smoking a cigarette while riding? There was an article the other day that spoke about a cyclist who was killed by veering head on into a car while the rider was texting.

Call me a fascist nannie all you want. The fact is that I vote for less government intrusion into our lives.

But I guess if my life sucked so bad or I didn't give a crap about people who loved me I could behave like these idiots too. Knock yourselves out. Have at it.
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  #198  
Old 02-12-2013, 12:49 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

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Originally Posted by sponserv
For the record....I said no to helmet laws. But I still feel that you just can't fix stupid. And thats OK.

I live in Daytona. If I had a nickel for every motorcyclist I have seen riding with no helmet and no gear with the tunes cranked and smoking a cigarette I would be a wealthy man. I mean really? Smoking a cigarette while riding? There was an article the other day that spoke about a cyclist who was killed by veering head on into a car while the rider was texting.

Call me a fascist nannie all you want. The fact is that I vote for less government intrusion into our lives.

But I guess if my life sucked so bad or I didn't give a crap about people who loved me I could behave like these idiots too. Knock yourselves out. Have at it.


Well, with OBAMACARE you might be in for a very rude awakening. Just read last week...in a GANNET owned paper no less, that a smoker under 55 will pay an additional $4000 per year and if you are 55 it will be $5100, this is over and above the $4000 you will be paying already. A friend in NJ said NY just passed a law charging an additional $80 per month for each moving violation.

I said when they passed it before they READ it that once the feds were controlling health care they would then tell us all what we can do, what we can eat, drink, smoke. How much we can weigh, how much we will exercise etc.

Think about it..

skydive? pay XXX$$$

mountain climb pay xxx$$$

scuba dive? pay xxx$$$

sail? pay xxx$$$

hang glide? pay xxx$$$

RIDE A MOTOTCYCLE? wear everything WE tell YOU to wear AND pay xxx$$$.

This is what the bleeding heart left-wing idiots wanted and we will be paying for it.
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Old 02-12-2013, 12:52 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

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Originally Posted by longride
I'm all for mandatory helmet laws.......but right after we have mandatory healthy food consumption, mandatory exercise programs, mandatory weight loss programs, mandatory laws forbidding smoking, and mandatory laws forbidding drinking. I figure if all the ones except the helmet laws are mandatory for everyone, then we won't really have to worry much about high insurance rates, so the helmet law won't be necessary.


Just wait......king obama will get us there.
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Old 02-12-2013, 01:57 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

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Just wait......king obama will get us there.

I agree with that. People that want extra laws or extra payments should watch what they ask for! They might just get it.

George
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  #201  
Old 04-05-2013, 07:48 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

I beleive that everyone "should" wear a helmet, however, I also beleive that no one should impose their beliefs on others . . ., Personal freedom is fading away in our society regardless of which political party is in power. Just read the Patriot Act and you will understand (hopefully).
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  #202  
Old 04-05-2013, 10:53 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

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I beleive that everyone "should" wear a helmet, however, I also beleive that no one should impose their beliefs on others . . ., Personal freedom is fading away in our society regardless of which political party is in power. Just read the Patriot Act and you will understand (hopefully).
That's fine, then it's my belief that I shouldn't have to pay the exhaustive medical expenses of the helmetless uninsured motorcyclist that uses his head as a mallet on terra firma. So where do we go from there? Personal freedom vs. excepting responsibility for ones actions. I guess I just don't understand....
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  #203  
Old 04-05-2013, 11:18 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

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That's fine, then it's my belief that I shouldn't have to pay the exhaustive medical expenses of the helmetless uninsured motorcyclist that uses his head as a mallet on terra firma. So where do we go from there? Personal freedom vs. excepting responsibility for ones actions. I guess I just don't understand....

But don't you understand that it is motorcyclists in general, not just helmetless that get expensive injuries. Your logic also applies to just outlawing motorcycling period. It is so dangerous, helmet or not, that if you follow that logic, they should outlaw motorcycling without a helmet, which most states have, and still hugely expensive to the system, so they should just go all the way and outlaw motorcycling even with helmets. Be careful what tyrany you support, because they likely will not stop at your line in the sand, but just bull-doze right over you also.
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Old 04-06-2013, 05:03 AM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

XRx, I personally don't care if you or anyone else elect to ride helmetless, in fact I don't even care if someone wants to only wear their flip flops and tighty whities. My personal resentment is having the priviledge of paying the medical expenses due to very poor judgement. IMHO, this is not an issue of tyrrany nor is it a conspiracy to eradicate motorcycles, it's the business of excessive unneccessary health care expenses. Choice in the U.S. is a priviledge and any particular choice can be impeded by legislation due to consistent bad judgement, a.k.a. anti-gun lobbyists. I agree noone has the "right" to tell you what to do, but if I participate in a risky activity then I will be prepared so as to not ruin it for others.
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  #205  
Old 04-06-2013, 11:21 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

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Originally Posted by Byknrrtl
That's fine, then it's my belief that I shouldn't have to pay the exhaustive medical expenses of the helmetless uninsured motorcyclist that uses his head as a mallet on terra firma.

Exactly! You shouldn't be FORCED to pay for ANYONE'S healthcare! Helmeted, un-helmeted, obese, anorexic, smoker, drinker old-ager or any other. If you want to pay some or all, go right ahead. Donate individually, form a club, start a 501.C. Knock yourself out.

Just keep me out of it. And if you DO want to pay, don't be mad if I opt out.

BUT, most importantly, don't use your wish to pay for some medical care for some people as an excuse to force ME to wear a helmet.

Individual liberty and choices are important.

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Old 04-08-2013, 10:37 AM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

My accountant found that under Obama care smokers will pay an additional $4k per year over the FIRST $4,000 per year that Obama care will cost you. There is more...if said smoker is 55 or older the surcharge is $5100 per year! They are still digging but I'm betting anything you do that increases your health risk will have a surcharge attached to it...

Smoke? $4k
Obese? $$$$$
History of heart disease? $$$$$
History of cancer? $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Ride motorcycles? $$$$$$
Sail? $$$$$$$$$$
Skydive? $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Scuba dive? $$$$$$$$$$
Mountain climb? $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Here's another little tidbit......Friend of mine was diagnosed with stomach cancer last year at age 71....his oncologist told him he was lucky to have caught it before 2014 as they might not by allowed to treat a 70+ year old for anything as costly as cancer.

IF this is true they won't need 'death-panels'......they will have a written directive.

The death spiral of America has begun.
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Old 07-06-2013, 06:20 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

I live in Chicago, Illinois. No helmet laws in my state and I still feel the need to where my full face helmet.

The law has nothing to do with the level of safety I feel is necessary for me. How ever I believe the next rider my have a different view on where or not they need to protect them self's to the same degree and I respect that.

The only helmet law I would support would be any rider or passenger under the age of 18 would be required to where a DOT approved helmet. If you are old enough to go to war you can decide if a helmet on your ride is needed.

My two cents.
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Old 07-06-2013, 06:27 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

Up here in the great north all provinces and territories have mandatory helmet laws.

doesn't stop people from riding in tank tops, shorts and flip flops however.

I think I would rather be dead from a head injury than having my chest worn off right to the bone like happened to a friend of mine years ago.
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Old 07-09-2013, 05:55 AM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

Wearing a helmet will not kill you but if you don't have one on when you hit the dirt I can nearly guarantee you will wish you did.
I had a slow off last year and the scar that my helmet received striking rough bitumen was deep enough to prove my head was saved serious impact.
A mate recently had a slide on a wet corner and landed on his face,I can imagine what his face would have looked like without a helmet.You owe it to your family to keep safe.
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Old 07-14-2013, 08:06 AM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

I voted yes. I'd like to see the insurance industry make sweeping changes in how they treat riders in general. We all know that's not going to happen anytime soon, just a nice pipe dream.

I'd like to see an end to the stupid soup bowl, tupperware helmet (hats) in the market. And, I'd like to see training addressed once and for all in this country.

New riders, even those that have just completed the "optional" MSF/Rider's Edge, for the most part are not prepared to go out and hop on a motorcycle of any size and ride on the street. Yet, they do it every week. For the most part on a motorcycle that's way too big, often with tragic results.
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Old 07-14-2013, 08:53 AM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

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Originally Posted by vics
Maybe; but how's it free if I have to pay for the Ahole who's offe'd himself performing said act of 'freedom' ?
It's not the ahole who offed himself that's the problem, ie: to be paid for. It's the one who put himself into a situation where he/she will have to live on welfare for the rest of their lives after an extended stay in the hospital with no insurance. THOSE are the ones we wind up paying for.

I think there should have been one more category added to this poll: No, it's an individuals right but; legislation should be passed to ensure his/her insurance rates ARE effected. Too late now.

I also think that the fact that the vast majority of answerers to this poll say that helmet laws should be mandatory is directly proportional to the IQs of BMW riders.

Yes, I know I got here late. This thread started in 2009.
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Old 07-14-2013, 08:58 AM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

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It's not the ahole who offed himself that's the problem, ie: to be paid for. It's the one who put himself into a situation where he/she will have to live on welfare for the rest of their lives after an extended stay in the hospital with no insurance. THOSE are the ones we wind up paying for.

Don't worry. Obamacare is going to take care of those people. Of course, YOU are going to PAY for THAT TOO!
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Old 07-14-2013, 09:27 AM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

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Don't worry. Obamacare is going to take care of those people. Of course, YOU are going to PAY for THAT TOO!

Yes, WE are.
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Old 07-14-2013, 09:59 AM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

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Originally Posted by ShimrMoon
I voted yes. I'd like to see the insurance industry make sweeping changes in how they treat riders in general. We all know that's not going to happen anytime soon, just a nice pipe dream.

I'd like to see an end to the stupid soup bowl, tupperware helmet (hats) in the market. And, I'd like to see training addressed once and for all in this country.

New riders, even those that have just completed the "optional" MSF/Rider's Edge, for the most part are not prepared to go out and hop on a motorcycle of any size and ride on the street. Yet, they do it every week. For the most part on a motorcycle that's way too big, often with tragic results.


Don't forget about mandating complete ATGATT, training wheels, and speed limit governor, plus restrict them to forty hp. To extend your nanny state attitude, why don't you just outlaw motorcycles all together? Motorcycles period are the real problem. I've already posted government statistics previously. Most injuries and fatalities were wearing helmets. Not to say helmets aren't good, but the helmets aren't the problem, it's the motorcycles. Everyone I've known that died on a bike was wearing a helmet, still dead.

Another concept, just yesterday, after spending hours doing yard work, I went for a little ride. Wore my soup bowl, and guess what, I automatically rode slower and more carefully. Full face helmet, I like and mostly use one, gives you a false sense of invincibility and you take more chances. Look at the statistics. IIRC the stats I posted earlier showed that in 2009 in NH (no helmet law state) there were only I think 14 fatalities and half of them WERE wearing helmets. How is it that in the state where SO MANY ride helmetless (they do, most of them) there are so few fatalities without you nannies holding their hands?
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Old 12-04-2013, 10:52 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

I am certainly not for more government intervention in any aspect of my life. Politicians have gotten way too much mileage out of the concept "for the public good" and it's biting us all in the ass. I think they're all a bunch of clueless morons bent on ego gratification and only truly concerned with the gravy train that accompanies re-election. Their most fervent desire is the good copy that arises when they state their all consuming intention to protect us from ourselves and thus we can all live forever. We might be in a defacto prison, but hey, at least we're alive, however bored and stultified . In as much, the law cannot protect us from our own actions, which has become, in many cases, the source of the problem. It is just not reasonable to mitigate the responsibility of everyone from every danger we are capable of creating for ourselves. While we cannot completely avoid risk there are some risks that are out of the ordinary (jumping off a cliff in a wingsuit???). Insurance, in its most basic form, is set up to manage risk. The execution of this basic concept has become way out of balance as politicians try to win votes by absolving everyone of the consequences of their actions (however stupid) at the behest of various special interests trying to cash in. I believe a starting point for the solution is to establish thresholds where legal claims can be enforced or denied. (I'm sure they have this in some way but I'm not well versed enough to say so or at what level.)

As a simplified example, if you don't want to wear a helmet and, out of your own brilliance, you fall down and smack your noggin on the tarmac then your medical bills are on you, insurance doesn't have to cover it. If you went ATTGATT then your medical insurance would be required to pony up. This way you can determine the level of risk you are comfortable with but not force everyone else to pay for your decisions.

I realize this is the polar opposite of obamacare and yeah, it would start a whole new war between politicians, lawyers, insurance companies and medical service providers but there has to be some middle ground where individuals can't just act stupidly and have everyone else cover it.
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Old 12-05-2013, 06:13 AM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

The challenge with your premise is, where do you draw the line? What if you're walking down the sidewalk, "fall down and smack your noggin on the tarmac"? Does insurance pay then? Why in one scenario and not the other? Same with operating a car, should a helmet be required?

You're suggesting the same type of government intrusion, just quibbling over the price.
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Old 12-05-2013, 06:18 AM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

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Originally Posted by ShimrMoon
I'd like to see an end to the stupid soup bowl, tupperware helmet (hats) in the market. And, I'd like to see training addressed once and for all in this country.

Perhaps we'd have fewer 'tupperware' helmets if federal law didn't prohibit experimenting with motorcycle helmet alternatives? How many lives might be saved if 'lidless' riders had a choice of anything between 'tupperware' and full DOT spec helmets? The Fed has made it an all or nothing decision instead of allowing it's subjects to choose.
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Old 12-05-2013, 07:10 AM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

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The challenge with your premise is, where do you draw the line? What if you're walking down the sidewalk, "fall down and smack your noggin on the tarmac"? Does insurance pay then? Why in one scenario and not the other? Same with operating a car, should a helmet be required?

You're suggesting the same type of government intrusion, just quibbling over the price.

No, not really. I'm just acknowledging that there are differing levels of risk that need to be addressed differently. If you're walking down the sidewalk or even running for exercise that is a much lower risk level than free-running or parkour, as they call it. So if you want to run to be more healthy you should be applauded and healthcare should cover the occasional injury but if you want to do somersaults off a high wall onto a concrete landing surface and you over-rotate to a face plant I shouldn't have to pay for your dental care or emergency surgery to rebuild your eye socket.
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Old 12-05-2013, 01:11 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

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Originally Posted by kvr929rr
I am certainly not for more government intervention in any aspect of my life. Politicians have gotten way too much mileage out of the concept "for the public good" and it's biting us all in the ass. I think they're all a bunch of clueless morons bent on ego gratification and only truly concerned with the gravy train that accompanies re-election. Their most fervent desire is the good copy that arises when they state their all consuming intention to protect us from ourselves and thus we can all live forever. We might be in a defacto prison, but hey, at least we're alive, however bored and stultified . In as much, the law cannot protect us from our own actions, which has become, in many cases, the source of the problem. It is just not reasonable to mitigate the responsibility of everyone from every danger we are capable of creating for ourselves. While we cannot completely avoid risk there are some risks that are out of the ordinary (jumping off a cliff in a wingsuit???). Insurance, in its most basic form, is set up to manage risk. The execution of this basic concept has become way out of balance as politicians try to win votes by absolving everyone of the consequences of their actions (however stupid) at the behest of various special interests trying to cash in. I believe a starting point for the solution is to establish thresholds where legal claims can be enforced or denied. (I'm sure they have this in some way but I'm not well versed enough to say so or at what level.)

As a simplified example, if you don't want to wear a helmet and, out of your own brilliance, you fall down and smack your noggin on the tarmac then your medical bills are on you, insurance doesn't have to cover it. If you went ATTGATT then your medical insurance would be required to pony up. This way you can determine the level of risk you are comfortable with but not force everyone else to pay for your decisions.

I realize this is the polar opposite of obamacare and yeah, it would start a whole new war between politicians, lawyers, insurance companies and medical service providers but there has to be some middle ground where individuals can't just act stupidly and have everyone else cover it.

In a free market system, you are free to find or open an insurance company that sets is own rates and coverages where you can then set or choose a policy that doesn't cover non attgatt or whatever else you deem best for you and or your customers.

To meet your suggestion requires that the government take away that free market system and force the companies to all insure the same things the same way

You started off on the right track out of Fascistown, but then you pulled the emergency brake to let Stalin on board to be the mayor of your new town.
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Old 12-05-2013, 02:17 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

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No, not really. I'm just acknowledging that there are differing levels of risk that need to be addressed differently. If you're walking down the sidewalk or even running for exercise that is a much lower risk level than free-running or parkour, as they call it. So if you want to run to be more healthy you should be applauded and healthcare should cover the occasional injury but if you want to do somersaults off a high wall onto a concrete landing surface and you over-rotate to a face plant I shouldn't have to pay for your dental care or emergency surgery to rebuild your eye socket.

We're not talking about you paying for it, we're talking about my insurance policy, a contract between two private individuals, paying for it.
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Old 12-05-2013, 09:22 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

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In a free market system, you are free to find or open an insurance company that sets is own rates and coverages where you can then set or choose a policy that doesn't cover non attgatt or whatever else you deem best for you and or your customers.

To meet your suggestion requires that the government take away that free market system and force the companies to all insure the same things the same way

You started off on the right track out of Fascistown, but then you pulled the emergency brake to let Stalin on board to be the mayor of your new town.

Comrade Joe and I really don't get along but there needs to be some better ground rules than "Everyone into the pot and just do what you want." I specifically said "a simplified example" and "starting point" for a reason. It's not really possible to deal with every situation here and there could certainly exist the possibility of the free market stepping in with enhanced coverage. The health insurance providers have been doing it with smoking for years. The point is that there need to be some limits or even the free market will not be able to cover it. I believe motorcycles can be ridden safely on the street but there are limits. If you're doing 150 down a residential street and you stuff it why should the insurance company be accountable. If you're on a track that's a different story.
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Old 12-05-2013, 09:30 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

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We're not talking about you paying for it, we're talking about my insurance policy, a contract between two private individuals, paying for it.

Ultimately, if we have the same carrier and pay into the same pool, my rates will go up so the insurance company can satisfy it's investors if they are having to spend a lot of money to cover your aerobatics or antibiotics too frequently. This is what's led to goofy trying to force socialized medicine down our throats.
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Old 12-05-2013, 10:01 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

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Ultimately, if we have the same carrier and pay into the same pool, my rates will go up so the insurance company can satisfy it's investors if they are having to spend a lot of money to cover your aerobatics or antibiotics too frequently. This is what's led to goofy trying to force socialized medicine down our throats.

Standard strawman argument. Under that premise our rates should go down if a state passes a helmet requirement law, but it doesn't. Rates also don't climb in reaction to a removal of the state requirement.

Insurance companies will always charge as much as the market will bear, that's the nature of capitalism.
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Old 12-06-2013, 01:06 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

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Ultimately, if we have the same carrier and pay into the same pool, my rates will go up so the insurance company can satisfy it's investors if they are having to spend a lot of money to cover your aerobatics or antibiotics too frequently. This is what's led to goofy trying to force socialized medicine down our throats.

So don't have the same insurance company as him. Get a bunch of your like minded government nanny types together, pool your money and open an insurance company that doesn't pay medical bills for people who do things more dangerous than you. Then you'll save money AND make money. But let's be honest, you want more than that, you know what's best for others better than they do, so want to force your will on them.

Although it's all quote nonsensical, since you do something so extremely dangerous and systemically expensive as riding motorcycles in the first place. If your cohorts have any sense they would also not cover you because you engage in such a dangerous activity even with your atgatt.

And yet again, I do wear gear, just f the nannies who want to tell me what gear I must.
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Old 12-06-2013, 08:25 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

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So don't have the same insurance company as him. Get a bunch of your like minded government nanny types together, pool your money and open an insurance company that doesn't pay medical bills for people who do things more dangerous than you. Then you'll save money AND make money. But let's be honest, you want more than that, you know what's best for others better than they do, so want to force your will on them.

Although it's all quote nonsensical, since you do something so extremely dangerous and systemically expensive as riding motorcycles in the first place. If your cohorts have any sense they would also not cover you because you engage in such a dangerous activity even with your atgatt.

And yet again, I do wear gear, just f the nannies who want to tell me what gear I must.

Where did that come from? You must really suck at hockey because it sounds like you've been on the losing end of one too many high sticking episodes. Did you forget to wear your mask when trying out for goalie? Obviously your brain doesn't have enough power to let you skate very fast so I guess that would be a natural position for you. Growing up in New England I don't remember people being such assholes, must be that blew state mentality.
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Old 12-06-2013, 09:39 PM
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Old 12-07-2013, 03:07 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

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Where did that come from? You must really suck at hockey because it sounds like you've been on the losing end of one too many high sticking episodes. Did you forget to wear your mask when trying out for goalie? Obviously your brain doesn't have enough power to let you skate very fast so I guess that would be a natural position for you. Growing up in New England I don't remember people being such assholes, must be that blew state mentality.

Another standard straw man tactic. Your convenient dramatized hurt feelings don't discount my poignant points. And it's so typical. The guy standing up in the defense of his freedom is rude, and in that has offended the guy speaking up in favor of trying to dictate what is safe enough for everyone else.
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Old 12-07-2013, 10:13 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

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Another standard straw man tactic. Your convenient dramatized hurt feelings don't discount my poignant points. And it's so typical. The guy standing up in the defense of his freedom is rude, and in that has offended the guy speaking up in favor of trying to dictate what is safe enough for everyone else.

Your "poignant" post says you want to play word games, here you go hotpants.

Straw man?? Yeaaahhh. I don't ever recall saying the government should have the right or authority to tell us what gear to wear. I only stated that as the beginning of an idea within an established context and with qualifying statements (both useful literary devices among people who can read above a 6th grade level) that insurance companies should be able to mitigate their level of risk based upon reasonable parameters because that is one of the big arguments in the helmet discussion. You and it_mike ran off the field with it. Next thing I know I'm being called facist, nanny stater and that I seek to force my will on everyone. Those are the true straw man arguments. My other statement, in response to your derisive post, was nothing more than an observation that you were coming across as an inbred hockey goon that had been hit in the head with a stick too many times, like Terry Sawchuck before he got a mask. It had nothing to do with the discussion. And poignant??? Did you read that in a Scatalogical reference book? I think the approved synonym would be pitiful.

I'm not some shrinking violet, so you don't get a pass from me trying to portray yourself as the finger in the dike of freedom (I swoon at your courage) because I totally acknowledge your and anyone else's right to self-destruct if you want to. Let me know so I can make popcorn. But I think if you want to act stupid you should accept the responsibility like an adult, without exploiting the holes in the system or others' goodwill. Or has that become a foreign concept?

Also, if my insurance company has a good year I get a rebate check or my rates go down. If too many drivers decide to park in someone else's passenger seat I don't. So in effect I pay less.

So have fun. Tell your mummy to get some ointment for your bum.
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  #229  
Old 12-09-2013, 05:55 AM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

The safety aspect is good. And we're happy wearing them in Queensland, Australia, and it is just part of riding.

But things can get out of hand, a few years ago they banned pillions under the age of 8.

Now we have to register with the police if you are riding in a group of 12 or more.

Next they'll probably legislate safety gear ie Jackets, Gloves and Boots.
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  #230  
Old 12-10-2013, 09:08 AM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

Quote:
Originally Posted by goldev
The safety aspect is good. And we're happy wearing them in Queensland, Australia, and it is just part of riding.

But things can get out of hand, a few years ago they banned pillions under the age of 8.

Now we have to register with the police if you are riding in a group of 12 or more.

Next they'll probably legislate safety gear ie Jackets, Gloves and Boots.

And this is why i voted NO, give them in inch and they will take a mile,
i believe in "Let those who Ride Decide"
if the insurance wants to charge more to those who do not use good sense and wear a Helmet, LET THEM. i live in a no helmet law state and it is very very seldom you will see me without a helmet, and if you do, i will not be going above bicycle speed, because i don't wear one on the bicycle
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Old 01-24-2014, 08:54 AM
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Smile Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

I voted NO, next on Big Brother Uncle Sam will be mandatory jackets containing airbags.
Uncle Sam likes intrusion.
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  #232  
Old 01-24-2014, 11:04 AM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

I'm Canadian, so my opinion does not really matter. I just can't imagine not wearing one.
I would suggest that people who don't wear helmets, never grew up riding dirt bikes. When you first learn to ride in the dirt, you gain a healthy perspective of what it's like to fall off your bike. Which is another reason why I think it should be mandatory to ride in the dirt first. Other reasons being that the skills you learn will help you be better prepared for the street.

An old saying..."If you don't think you need a helmet...you're probably right"
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  #233  
Old 01-24-2014, 03:26 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

No. People who don't wear helmets don't need them.
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  #234  
Old 01-27-2014, 09:20 AM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

I'm betting that should OBAMACARE not get repealed the Feds will either pass a national helmet/protective gear law using the excuse that THEY are paying the bill or they will surcharge the living hell out of anyone who rides, flies, scuba dives, sky dives, mountain climbs, sails, races and the list will go on and on to include any and all things deemed by some idiot committee sitting in DC to be a high risk endeavor.

Isn't socialism going to be fun!
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Old 01-27-2014, 10:39 AM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikethebike61
I'm betting that should OBAMACARE not get repealed the Feds will either pass a national helmet/protective gear law using the excuse that THEY are paying the bill or they will surcharge the living hell out of anyone who rides, flies, scuba dives, sky dives, mountain climbs, sails, races and the list will go on and on to include any and all things deemed by some idiot committee sitting in DC to be a high risk endeavor.

Isn't socialism going to be fun!

That sounds a little like fear mongering. We have helmet laws here. How does little Canada do it? And you are right...socialism is fun.
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Old 01-27-2014, 01:07 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

Quote:
Originally Posted by trevorf
That sounds a little like fear mongering. We have helmet laws here. How does little Canada do it? And you are right...socialism is fun.

I disagree. Mike is right, and my rationale for that is they already successfully floated the trial balloon for this surcharge. The obamacare law already includes a tax on tanning booths, because it puts a burden on healthcare. Now that we have let them get away with going after the minority population of tanners, you really believe they will not add many things to the list, as Mike suggests?

Otherwise, these people who keep justifying giving away freedom of choice because people who don't think they need a helmet don't need one, you don't get it. I wear helmets and gear, but don't want wannabe dictators to force me.

Oh and fyi I design thrusters for satellites, not at all to say I'm smarter than anyone, just to demonstrate I'm not some cave man, and so maybe I and others who believe in freedom of choice are not as stupid as you want to tell yourselves.
I'm just a believer in freedom of choice, not a believer in nanny government.
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  #237  
Old 01-27-2014, 08:30 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

If a rider sustains a head injury and wasn't wearing a helmet, the cost of the head treatment, assuming the person lives, should come out of their pocket. If I owned an insurance company, I would make that a provision in my policy for motorcyclists. No helmet, no payment.

PS. And it should not matter what type of insurance you have.
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  #238  
Old 01-27-2014, 09:00 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobby
If a rider sustains a head injury and wasn't wearing a helmet, the cost of the head treatment, assuming the person lives, should come out of their pocket. If I owned an insurance company, I would make that a provision in my policy for motorcyclists. No helmet, no payment.

PS. And it should not matter what type of insurance you have.

Seriously Bobby, I beg you to explain why the same logic should not extend to something so dangerous as riding motorcycles at all. If you believe your insurance shouldn't pay for some motorcyclerelated injuries and not others, when motorcycles even with helmets are extremely dangerous and arguably stupid by your logic.

It boils down to you living an extremely risky lifestyle of riding even with a helmet. Why should you be allowed to? You people would as a group would cost the taxpayers so much less money if you rode priuses. You obviously need a nanny with your risky judgement, riding one of those death machines. .
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  #239  
Old 01-27-2014, 09:23 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

Actually, the danger of motorcycling, like the danger of anything, is factored into the insurance we pay our insurance companies. when I recently looked around for other insurance, all the companies wanted to know all kinds of things about me, I assume for their evaluaion of my rate. Is that called actuary or something like that. All I know is there is a lot of statistics involved.
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  #240  
Old 01-27-2014, 09:29 PM
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Re: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?

PS. don't misunderstand me. I think everyone should wear a helmet, but I don't think our government should make that decision. That should be left to insurance companies. i.e., if you tell your company you always wear a helmet and get a good rate, you should have to pay out of your own pocket if you get a head injury that a helmet would have prevented.
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