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Poll: Is rider formalised rider training effective?
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Is rider formalised rider training effective?

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  #1  
Old 06-08-2009, 01:03 PM
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Effectiveness of rider training

Over the years, we've seen a bunch of mishaps and the related questions of 'which bike should I purchase'. There's always debate as to whether instructional led precursors to riding safely/ optimally are helpful, or is riding 'real time' (real world) where one accrues the experience?

Can we correlate 'crashing' to lack of formal training (class room and thereafter closed circuit track training)?

Lets define a 'crash' as something more than dropping a bike in the anonymous poll above
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This I-BMW member either likes, thanks -or- is 'shouting out' to 'vics' for this post:
  #2  
Old 06-08-2009, 01:20 PM
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Re: Effectiveness of rider training

Personally I think that rider training is effective. However, there really is no training like experience. And I think this applies pretty much equally to riding motorcycles as well as driving cars.
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  #3  
Old 06-08-2009, 02:05 PM
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Re: Effectiveness of rider training

I voted "Had training, didn`t crash"
I feel that a lot of good comes from educated training.
I recently had a refresh course with the Automobile association NAF. They had hired in members of the motorcycle police to teach.
It was a very well planed course and gave me a lot of good practice.
Everything from emergency braking, evasive maneuvers and so on.
We also had guided training on the racetrack to better select proper vector through the turns.
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  #4  
Old 06-08-2009, 02:08 PM
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Re: Effectiveness of rider training

I started riding street bikes when I was 16 - long before the MSF existed. However, my crashes were entirely my fault - because I was 16
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  #5  
Old 06-08-2009, 02:24 PM
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Re: Effectiveness of rider training

Vic, somewhere I had read that post-7,000 miles (maybe in the 2nd year of riding?), when one feels more comfortable
on the bike is when a first crash is more likely to occur.


So.... keeping the bike upright (even when hurtling through reflector posts and huge rocks) is not crashing... COOL!...
THCR '08 doesn't count.. hmmmm... If track crashes don't count either....


The MSF would not have saved my ass in any of my crashes (which first occurred near 60,000 ride miles).
However, it was invaluable to me for general riding skills that have aided safe riding and undoubtedly kept me upright ...
until I ...uhm... met up with i-BMW hooligans...

How about a poll investigating if one first crashed before or AFTER joining and riding with i-BMW forum members?
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  #6  
Old 06-08-2009, 03:30 PM
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Re: Effectiveness of rider training

i think rider training helps the neophyte quite a bit

yet most training happens in a very controlled enviroment

which at best expands fundamental skills + confidence

helps mostly that the rider will NOT get in over their heads

& be the cause & victim of their own actions

doesnt help at all for dodging lane changers that dont see you

soccers moms distracted a doz different ways.....................

dogs that run under your wheels

folks that pull directly in front of you...................' i didnt see him "

or those that get rear ended

rider 101 is a good thing yet augmented each season might be a good thing
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  #7  
Old 06-08-2009, 04:02 PM
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Re: Effectiveness of rider training

Two crashes LAST year with a couple 100k miles on two wheels ......

Driver training for ME when I first started riding ..... NONE !

Would I suggest that to anyone ... NO F-ING WAY !

A beginner class to get fundamentals and the right to operate to drive .....
A season of riding ...... maybe 3/5000 miles .....

THEN A TRACK DAY or TWO !!!

Its really the only place to LEARN how to take a damn corner , safely !!!



Unless your from a part of the country where cornering is a major part of riding .

I'm sure stats will say speed , other causes ...... are high on lists , I'm sure thats true . But I'm confident in saying that speed AND the corner are on there as well .
How many of US come up on a corner and get bitten by it ?


Track Days are worth their weight/cost in GOLD .

just sayin
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  #8  
Old 06-08-2009, 04:13 PM
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Re: Effectiveness of rider training

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Tail
i think rider training helps the neophyte quite a bit
yet most training happens in a very controlled enviroment
YES - exactly my thoughts on instructor led training and how little prepared one is for the real world. This is not to suggest that its unhelpful, there's still little that happens within a controled, dynamic environment out there ......
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  #9  
Old 06-08-2009, 04:17 PM
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Re: Effectiveness of rider training

Florida just made safety courses mandatory for licensing. After spending 9 yrs riding without a motorcycle endorsement on my license, I was finally pulled over (for sitting at a traffic light with my visor up) and encouraged to get a license. I know...I'm a hooligan. $300 dollars later I had my license and a MSF course certificate. While I even managed to learn a thing or two during the course, there is no substitute for experience. The only thing they hounded me for was only using 2 fingers for clutch and brakes (bad MX habit I guess).

There was a Duc rider in the class with the same reason for being there, so the company helped, but for the most part we were stuck waiting on the first timers trying to remember which side the brake is on. It was fun to thrash around on a Buell Blast though. I'm a big guy (6'1" 270lbs) so I looked a little like a bear on a tricycle.

I wouldn't mind going back for the advanced course though, which here allows you to use your own bike.

As for crashes....none yet, on tarmac. Two broken ribs and 4 crushed fingers from trail riding are enough.
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  #10  
Old 06-08-2009, 04:41 PM
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Re: Effectiveness of rider training

Yeh, 15 mph with everyone going the same way and nothing else to consider (cars, trucks, potholes, traffic, traffic signals, other farkle distractions, etc) is not the way it really is as we know. The training course helps, but there is a whole lot going on out there at 55+ mph in traffic.
On my first interstate ride after the training course, it was like I had learned nothing. Got off the interstate and had to get my mind right.
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  #11  
Old 06-08-2009, 06:02 PM
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Re: Effectiveness of rider training

I took BRC class and glad I did before I purchased my first bike. (Actually took it twice: after the first successful graduation I had a non-motorcycling related injury that prevented me from riding for over a year. After I was ready, I felt like I've forgotten everything I was taught and took the class again). I think taking the class was a good thing. Though nothing substitutes experience, learning basic stuff correctly is way easier than re-learning it if you learned it yourself on the streets (chances are quite high that you'd learn it incorrectly). The class does put you on the right path of obtaining experience.

I think I'll take Experienced Rider class, if I find free time to do it.
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  #12  
Old 06-08-2009, 10:50 PM
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Re: Effectiveness of rider training

Personally I'm glad I took a safety training course since I'd never really spent much time on a motorcycle. I felt I learned some things that have made me a better, more defensive rider. I think at some point I may try the Experienced Rider course.

The State of Texas requires you to successfully complete this course so you can get your motorcycle license. If you don't take the course you have to perform a ride test at the DPS to get your license.
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  #13  
Old 06-09-2009, 06:49 AM
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Re: Effectiveness of rider training

Quote:
Originally Posted by McFly
Personally I'm glad I took a safety training course since I'd never really spent much time on a motorcycle. I felt I learned some things that have made me a better, more defensive rider. I think at some point I may try the Experienced Rider course.

The State of Texas requires you to successfully complete this course so you can get your motorcycle license. If you don't take the course you have to perform a ride test at the DPS to get your license.
Its great in Mass - in that anyone (and I mean anyone) can get a permit to ride (can't ride @ night or out of state) if you successfully answer 7 out of 10 questions - then you're 'free' to ride a bike and introduce the carnage known as yourself to the highway. The written test is comical: "What is a sign with 'n' amount of side known as?" (A: stop sign) - OK, you may pass, now go hit something
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  #14  
Old 06-09-2009, 09:19 AM
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Re: Effectiveness of rider training

Always thought that BRC was a good place to find out if you wanted to ride, it would give just enough to get on the street.

Seat time and experience!

One thing the local Navy is trying to improve on is to get experienced riders to mentor the beginners. I have done this mentoring with a few people here at work,and they have loved it. I'm not saying that I'm an expert by any means, but sitting down with them after a short ride for lunch ( which they happily pay for ) and talking about what went on gives them things to think about and a lot of confidence with someone watching thier back.
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  #15  
Old 06-09-2009, 09:44 AM
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Re: Effectiveness of rider training

I have been riding for more than 50 years. Had one crash in the 2nd year, then nothng for 47 more. Took the MSF beginners course with my 2 adult sons so they could learn how to ride from the beginning. Had my 2nd crash 3 years ago (Bambi and I had differences as to who belongs on the road). Would love to take the advanced MSF course one of these days, now that I am riding much more.
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  #16  
Old 06-09-2009, 12:40 PM
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Re: Effectiveness of rider training

!5 miles an hour in a parking lot may not be the same as street experience, -but getting multiple chances to get it right [in a safe environment] is sure better than EVERY choice on the streets, in traffic, being a "pass/fail final exam" for inexperienced riders.

And the whole point of the BRC is to teach you how to continue practicing correct procedures when you get out on the streets. This only happens if you begin riding immediately after taking the course, and not 6 months to a year later. The real learning takes place after the class, when you put into use what you were shown.

The class may not be better than 6 weeks of private, one on one, instruction, but it is way better than riding a bike in the streets with the same mental attitude and skills that you use to drive your car.


If you haven't taken a BRC or ERC [basic and experienced] course in the last 5 years, you might learn a few things to make riding safer, while being more fun.

Even better, get a group of 7-12 buds together and contact a community college about a one day ERC class on your motorcycle. You will have a good time, find a few bad habits, and might learn something that will save your life.
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  #17  
Old 06-09-2009, 12:59 PM
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Re: Effectiveness of rider training

Quote:
Originally Posted by BubbaMack
...I was finally pulled over (for sitting at a traffic light with my visor up)....

Are you kidding?
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Old 06-09-2009, 01:37 PM
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Re: Effectiveness of rider training

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Originally Posted by MaicoBMW
Are you kidding?

Nope. In this great state you are not required to wear a helmet, but you must have 'some form' of eye protection. For the full story, the LEO had followed me for about 2 miles through several lights. As soon as I flipped my visor to prevent fogging in 90+ degree heat, he lit me up. He was looking for a reason, and I gave him one.
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Old 06-09-2009, 01:48 PM
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Re: Effectiveness of rider training

Quote:
Originally Posted by BubbaMack
Nope. In this great state you are not required to wear a helmet, but you must have 'some form' of eye protection. For the full story, the LEO had followed me for about 2 miles through several lights. As soon as I flipped my visor to prevent fogging in 90+ degree heat, he lit me up. He was looking for a reason, and I gave him one.

I see, just a case of you and your dangerous looking bike fitting the profile.
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Old 06-10-2009, 03:16 PM
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Re: Effectiveness of rider training

Quote:
Originally Posted by trond



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if this is a friend of yous tell him to start leaning his upper body into the turn and hang off, he appears to be pushing the bike under himself and trying to keep his body vertical, causing much more lean angle than needed to be used up for his corner speed.
unless he is picking the bike back up here to flop into a quick left right chicane transition.
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Old 06-10-2009, 03:31 PM
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Re: Effectiveness of rider training

Karlb!
I wont see him again until August, but I`ll pass along the massage then.
If you look at the blurry rider behind him you`ll see me.
It looks like my bike is in a much more upright position but I have now idea how I look when I drive.
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Old 06-10-2009, 03:34 PM
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Re: Effectiveness of rider training

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karlb
if this is a friend of yous tell him to start leaning his upper body into the turn and hang off, he appears to be pushing the bike under himself and trying to keep his body vertical, causing much more lean angle than needed to be used up for his corner speed.

There's a lot of that "style" at our get togethers. AKA...dirtbikin' a corner. That style results in a lot of peg dragging that should never happen. Asking the bike to do all the work allows very little margin of error since the bike is often at the limit when the rider isn't! But...to each his own.
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Old 06-10-2009, 05:16 PM
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Re: Effectiveness of rider training

Maybe there's a course out there that'll teach you to ride like this guy:

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Old 06-10-2009, 05:42 PM
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Re: Effectiveness of rider training

Quote:
Originally Posted by CJS350
Maybe there's a course out there that'll teach you to ride like this guy:

That's photoshopped! Everybody knows that a bike that has two head lights that are alike...has to be a slower'n crap!
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Old 06-10-2009, 05:42 PM
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Re: Effectiveness of rider training

Quote:
Originally Posted by CJS350
Maybe there's a course out there that'll teach you to ride like this guy:

I think that's something you have to be born with...
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Old 06-12-2009, 10:43 AM
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Re: Effectiveness of rider training

I've never had rider training, but I do think it's the best way to start. Real world experience is great but if all that experience is doing the wrong thing what good is it?
I used to ride with a Blue Knight Chapter, many Police trained riders that didn't know what counter-steering was . Ask many self or worse friend trained riders that have been riding for years what counter-steering is and you'll get that blank stare. Or they won't believe you. That and "DONT USE THE REAR BRAKE it'll kill you"
I came upon a M/C fatality on the highway a few years ago, just looking at the skid marks I knew what happened. Reading the account in the paper confirmed it. A so called experienced rider with many miles under his belt got cut off locked the rear brake and high-sided into the guard rail head first were his beenie helmet didn't protect his head.
Start out doing it right and pratice pratice pratice .
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Old 06-16-2009, 02:07 PM
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Re: Effectiveness of rider training

Quote:
Originally Posted by vics
Its great in Mass - in that anyone (and I mean anyone) can get a permit to ride (can't ride @ night or out of state) if you successfully answer 7 out of 10 questions - then you're 'free' to ride a bike and introduce the carnage known as yourself to the highway. The written test is comical: "What is a sign with 'n' amount of side known as?" (A: stop sign) - OK, you may pass, now go hit something
Vic, as a 16 yo chap in Pennsylvania I took this same "test" for my permit (exact same restrictions as you noted)... but they never told me to "go hit something"
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Old 06-17-2009, 12:33 AM
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Re: Effectiveness of rider training

I have taken a Keith Code course, 2 Reg Pridmore classes and a Jason Pridmore class -- while the main point for me was just the fun of doing a track day or two, I learned a ton about setting up turns, weighting on the bike, and accelerating out of turns -- definitely improved my riding-- also figured out that if I want to really push the envelope, I should do it on the track where I am in full leathers, no sand/water, no cars/trucks, and plenty of run-off if I push it too far- decided I did not want to lay down the K1200s and have to buy all that plastic from BMW so bought a little ZX6 just for the track -- Yahoo

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Old 06-20-2009, 08:19 PM
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Re: Effectiveness of rider training

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattB
Vic, as a 16 yo chap in Pennsylvania I took this same "test" for my permit (exact same restrictions as you noted)... but they never told me to "go hit something"
Did you make that decision on your own, Matt??
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Old 06-20-2009, 09:28 PM
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Re: Effectiveness of rider training

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kneedragger
Did you make that decision on your own, Matt??

Yeh...he's been makin' up for lost time!
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  #31  
Old 06-23-2009, 03:03 PM
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Re: Effectiveness of rider training

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kneedragger
Did you make that decision on your own, Matt??
Crap Charlie, you'd been hangin' round that mean spirited Dougiebone too long.

I went about 14 years without hitting anything, but lately I've been making up for lost time. I didin't toss the VFR down Roebling Road this year, but then again I described my riding as "like a sissy" this year ... but it was STILL fun

PS: missed ya Loggie, maybe next year?
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  #32  
Old 06-23-2009, 03:45 PM
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Re: Effectiveness of rider training

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattB
I didin't toss the VFR down Roebling Road this year, but then again I described my riding as "like a sissy" this year ... but it was STILL fun

PS: missed ya Loggie, maybe next year?

Thanks...just didn't work out this year. I hear your were workin' on technique...and that's GREAT! Get that squared away then the speed will come... That's not riding like a sissy...that's riding SMART!

See...nothin' mean spirited there...is there???
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Old 06-23-2009, 04:09 PM
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Re: Effectiveness of rider training

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattB
Crap Charlie, you'd been hangin' round that mean spirited Dougiebone too long.

I went about 14 years without hitting anything, but lately I've been making up for lost time. I didin't toss the VFR down Roebling Road this year, but then again I described my riding as "like a sissy" this year ... but it was STILL fun

Yeah, I've been trying to avoid Doug, but he keeps following me around... 14 years?? Hey, don't feel bad, Matt... I've never gotten close to that... I don't run into things, my bikes just tip over sometimes... I don't know WTF is wrong with them...
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Old 06-23-2009, 04:35 PM
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Re: Effectiveness of rider training

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kneedragger
14 years?? Hey, don't feel bad, Matt... I've never gotten close to that...
Charlie, I've tried to explain to Doug that if you don't crash every now and then you are simply not trying hard enough

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kneedragger
I don't run into things, my bikes just tip over sometimes... I don't know WTF is wrong with them...
I like the way you think... I suppose I need to change/retract my earlier statement, in 16 years of street riding I've never HIT anything, but I've had a few bikes "tip over" recently
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Old 06-29-2009, 07:58 AM
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Re: Effectiveness of rider training

Quote:
Originally Posted by BubbaMack
Nope. In this great state you are not required to wear a helmet, but you must have 'some form' of eye protection. For the full story, the LEO had followed me for about 2 miles through several lights. As soon as I flipped my visor to prevent fogging in 90+ degree heat, he lit me up. He was looking for a reason, and I gave him one.

Arkansas is has the same law. And the town of Sherwood near L.R. has the rep of looking for raised visors.
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  #36  
Old 07-06-2009, 10:49 PM
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Re: Effectiveness of rider training

The best thing courses offer is discount on Insurance.
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  #37  
Old 07-06-2009, 11:07 PM
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Re: Effectiveness of rider training

I didn't have the MC course. Been very fortunate over the years.
Sold a bike to a friend with the instructions to take the MC course. He did not make it. to the course that is. He passed a car, and hit a van after losing it. A course MIght have saved him.
I feel guilty here. ALways will. He was one of my oldest and dearest friends.
SOrry to share that one.

Take the course. I will before long. ERC for me.
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  #38  
Old 07-21-2009, 01:30 PM
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Re: Effectiveness of rider training

But it doesn't matter- Obama will fix everything anyway
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  #39  
Old 07-21-2009, 01:34 PM
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Re: Effectiveness of rider training

Quote:
Originally Posted by CommanderKewl
Take the course. I will before long. ERC for me.

Excellent advice commander- I took the ERC and it was an excellent course. The major point that we took away from the class was simple:
To increase your chances of survival on a motorcycle, you must limit your exposure to assholes.

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  #40  
Old 07-31-2009, 07:27 PM
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Re: Effectiveness of rider training

I rode for many years before taking the ERC, then went back and took the basic MRC and even became an MSF instructor and MAN. did it ever improve my riding skills. Maybe even saved my life a few times.
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  #41  
Old 09-03-2009, 08:18 PM
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Re: Effectiveness of rider training

The instructor in the MSF class that I took 30+yrs ago said at the end of the class: "Congratulations! You all now know how to maneuver a 125cc motorcycle around a parking lot at 15mph. Ride Safe!" Sage advice, indeed. Basically, the beginner class will hopefully prevent any mishaps the rider might have due to unfamiliarity with the controls of a motorcycle while riding in traffic. I've seen more than a few noobs run into the back of a car at a traffic light because they forgot to pull in the clutch when coming to a stop. That sort of preventable mishap can be frightening (and embarassing) enough to cause someone to swear off motorcycles forever.

I took an MSF advanced rider class many years later, which consisted of real road riding in a group as well as classroom training. I enjoyed the class a lot, and learned a few useful things I didn't know before. Rider training? I'm all for it, at any age or level of experience.
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  #42  
Old 09-16-2009, 09:33 AM
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Re: Effectiveness of rider training

As someone just starting to ride, I would say that it is invaluable. Until I took the class, I had never riden a bike in my life. It enabled me to learn the basics from a professional and to develop a basic (granted VERY basic) skill set to allow me to start building experience - without killing myself. In my BRC, there were a number of "experienced" riders (all on some sort of Japanese sport bike) who were far less skilled than they thought they were - some were down right scary in their lack of skills. Each, however, had clear attitude that they were only taking the course because the Navy was forcing to do so (BRC & tri-annual ERC are now standing DoD training requirements). That said, Sahadafakaya's comment about "a parking lot at 15 mph" is right on. No substitute at the end of the day for experince.

Cheers,
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  #43  
Old 09-16-2009, 10:33 AM
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Re: Effectiveness of rider training

Quote:
Originally Posted by HCS-Wombat
No substitute at the end of the day for experince.

Cheers,
Alex

Hey Alex...good to see you posting. Hope things are sorting themselves out for you!
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  #44  
Old 09-16-2009, 07:31 PM
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Re: Effectiveness of rider training

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loggiebone
Hey Alex...good to see you posting. Hope things are sorting themselves out for you!

Doug,
Thanks. Hopefully get her back tomorrow or Friday.
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  #45  
Old 01-04-2010, 07:51 AM
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Re: Effectiveness of rider training

I took an RAC/ACU course way back in the early 1970s as a condition of having my first bike, I did crash in the first 3000 miles but only down to sliding off on ice, I think that training did prevent me from having stupid traffic accidents, my only real off came over a year and 12000 miles later when I got hold of a far faster machine and testosterone took over As a mature rider I spend a lot of my riding time concentrating on good riding technique rather than going as fast as possible, it has however taken me thirty five years to get to this stage.
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  #46  
Old 03-11-2010, 07:33 PM
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Re: Effectiveness of rider training

After we completed the MSF BRC, our instructor said, "Congratulations. You are now all certified to ride a training bike around a parking lot." He went on to say that although we learned the fundamentals of riding, going out on the street was a whole new world. It was a great speech.

I would recommend a training class to everyone who wants to learn to ride.

Stay alert, stay alive.
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  #47  
Old 04-21-2010, 05:57 PM
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Re: Effectiveness of rider training

I did not have rider training. I did have a crash. My own fault of course. I had 20K miles plus at the time. I was chasing a rider that was far better than I and ran out of room in a turn. It ended up being a low speed crash that cost me some head work on my R90/6 but I learned my lesson. Ride within my means.
Yes to newbies and rider training. It is good information.
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Old 04-21-2010, 08:52 PM
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Re: Effectiveness of rider training

Last week I took the BMW Road Course driver training in Greer SC and it was amazing. We did lots of slow speed drills, emergency avoidance and braking. The instructors and the facility is first class! This is an absolute must do rider training! They take you way out of your comfort zone to show you the bike will do much more than you think and to trust it. Now I know why I have ABS brakes and will not own a bike without them!
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  #49  
Old 05-30-2010, 09:57 AM
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Re: Effectiveness of rider training

I took the basic m/c safety course last year. I was required to take it in order to ride on military installations. The course was free for me and I really ended up enjoying it. I was amazed how easy it was to wheel around my 600 lbs KRS at speeds under 5 mph. I amazed all the Harley riders with the beemer's maneuverability and stopping power. I could not get the bike to skid from a 30 mph sudden stop in 10' or less feet. No other bike came close to matching the stopping power except for a gixxer that locked up and left a skid mark. It definitely made me realize that BMW's are in a class all of their own. I'm looking forward to taking the sport riding course next or at least showing up other brand bikes without trying too hard.
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  #50  
Old 10-21-2010, 01:28 PM
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Re: Effectiveness of rider training

MC rider training can not hurt.
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  #51  
Old 12-11-2010, 11:29 AM
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Re: Effectiveness of rider training

I think it should be our covert mission to persuade the uninitiated into taking the MSF and further riding courses. Do we REALLY want newbies out there who have never had motorcycle training? Bad enough to have burly guys riding their bikes, claiming to have ridden for 30-40+ years, but who can't negotiate a curve and can't leave the bottle alone long enough to enjoy a sober ride. You KNOW that many of those same individuals would fail the MSF course!!
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  #52  
Old 12-11-2010, 11:54 AM
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Re: Effectiveness of rider training

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muddy1
I think it should be our covert mission to persuade the uninitiated into taking the MSF and further riding courses. Do we REALLY want newbies out there who have never had motorcycle training? Bad enough to have burly guys riding their bikes, claiming to have ridden for 30-40+ years, but who can't negotiate a curve and can't leave the bottle alone long enough to enjoy a sober ride. You KNOW that many of those same individuals would fail the MSF course!!

Well Muddy1 I am going to try and take a Lee Parks class March 20th so I will be ready for April
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  #53  
Old 12-12-2010, 10:29 AM
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Re: Effectiveness of rider training

Quote:
Originally Posted by Super8MM
Well Muddy1 I am going to try and take a Lee Parks class March 20th so I will be ready for April
Cool! Looking forward to meeting you.

To all riders: in this part of the world (North America) it is winter and often quite cold.
PLEASE remember this before you decide to negotiate a sharp curve in racing style.

Cold tires + Colder pavement + a sharp lean angle don't mix in a curve!!!

Just sayin'....
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Old 12-12-2010, 12:27 PM
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Re: Effectiveness of rider training

Don't forget to add a hint of moisture to the equation and then Black Ice. You won't see it till you go back and look.
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  #55  
Old 12-14-2010, 08:31 PM
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Re: Effectiveness of rider training

I started riding street bikes in 1974, got my license by driving my 74 Kawasaki H2 with clubman bars and rear sets around cones in the parking lot at the local DMV. There were no training schools back then.

I have layed down my bike twice. Frist time was in 74 when a truck pulled out in front of me and the second time I hit ice in an intersection. ( Bought a new house and had to ride the bike in Dec, live in Wisconsin) Both times the speed was below 25mph.

This summer I had a close one, hit a pot hole @ 70mph and it blew out my front tire and bent my rim, but I did not go down. Only had a few seconds from seeing the car in front of me dodge it so I just rode it out.
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  #56  
Old 01-04-2011, 04:37 PM
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Re: Effectiveness of rider training

A beginner class can get someone familiar with a motorcycle and teach them basic skills through the drills. The pupose of the training goes beyond HOW to handle the motorcycle. You can ride off-road and on the track and learn through experience how to handle the machine and push yourself closer to the machines capabilities. That's all great. The thing you shoud be getting from street oriented courses - beginner and experienced and Lee Parks- is the aspect of safety. Not just wearing the proper gear but having the proper mental attitude toward all of the posible hazards on the road whether moving or stationary. Don't ride beyond where you can see, think, and react. That Cager might say they didn't see you, but did you see them and take evasive action before they turned in front of you?
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  #57  
Old 01-04-2011, 09:37 PM
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Re: Effectiveness of rider training

In Lee's book that goes along with the first session it has chapters that covers the following

Chassis Dynamics
Mental Dynamics
Body Dynamics
Machine Setup
and Rider setup

looks like a bit of everything that lead up to cornering and evasive manovers to do it better at all speeds?
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  #58  
Old 03-05-2011, 06:03 PM
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Re: Effectiveness of rider training

The MSF book does give very good instructions on how not to get rear ended such as keeping your bike in gear, watching the mirrors and flashing the brake and leaving enough room to give yourself and out, proper lane usage techniques and covering your brakes so you don't become a victim of the "car that didn't see you" and much more. I read the book 4-5 times and it does help you develop safe riding skills for the real world. How many times do see "experienced" riders at a stop light with the bike out of gear and hands on their hips? In fact I know a rider who had been riding for 30 yrs who got reared ended at a stop light and broke some bones not to mention the bike. I asked him if he had the bike in gear and was watching the mirrors and he said no, I wish I would of thought of that. I told him to go take the basic MSF course.
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  #59  
Old 04-08-2011, 07:10 AM
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Re: Effectiveness of rider training

Training then lots of riding so it becomes 2nd nature.
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  #60  
Old 05-09-2011, 09:43 PM
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Re: Effectiveness of rider training

Riding over 40 years. Learned on dirt bikes, great training for handling skids/slides and unusual attitudes (to use pilot terminology).
For those that don't remember, I posted about a year ago about losing my rear wheel at 70mph. (Still say it was tampered with, cops still REFUSE to investigate, they said it's not worth their time)Witness said I rode the rear brake rotor for a little ways then went down.
No rider course can prepare you for that. I credit whatever control I was able to maintain(however brief) To EXPERIENCE and dirt riding skills.
Overall it would depend on the course, and good use of common sense!.
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