I-BMW.com I-BMW.com

Welcome to the I-BMW.com forums! - You're currently viewing as a limited access guest. By joining our free member supported community, you'll gain access to post/ reply, communicate privately with other members (PM), or globally via "real time chat", respond to polls, upload photos, post classifieds etc. Membership is fast so, Register @ the Ultimate Sport Touring Portal!
Should you not receive an email with activation link, check your SPAM settings or please contact us and include the ID/ email address you registered with.

Go Back   I-BMW.com > BMW K-1300 Series Motorcycles > K1300S > "K13S/R" Technical Q&A
User Name
Password
Home Register Gallery Classifieds FAQ Members List Calendar Donate Mark Forums Read

"K13S/R" Technical Q&A K1200S/R Technical Questions/Answers

Vendor Sign Up | Want to see your name in neon blue? | Want a neat reflective sticker for your ride?!

Reply
 
Thread Tools.. Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-04-2017, 09:26 AM
Bengarzy Bengarzy is offline
Shooting the gap
Post: 217 Thanks: 8
Thanked 92 Times in 53 Posts
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Red Lodge, Bury St Edmunds, England
K12 & 13 vibes, rattles and general harshness

I am trying to find out if there is enough riders on here to produce and fit a kit of precision parts to the K primary gear to eliminate all vibes and general clatter that afflicts some of these bikes.

I am a retired engineer that has access to CNC turning and milling, precision boring, grinding and centreless grinding to the highest standard.

After exhaustive modifications to the primary gear (the source of most of the nasty noises and all the vibes from 5-3k revs) I now know what causes the problem and will put into work 50 sets of specially made parts, bearings and a new clutch and associated parts so the owner can re fit and forget all the grief it causes. The engine will be silky smooth at all revs on the throttle, cruising or on the over run, just as a 4 cylinder engine with 2 balancer shafts should be.

Over the last two days I put my K back together with the std BMW gear and associated parts as delivered to me, it was horrible, I then pulled it apart and fitted the kit I have developed...........
now it's super smooth as it should be.

I have over the last 2 years built and tried 5 versions of primary gear until one day I realised what the problem was (which will remain a secret as I know BMW DONT KNOW WHAT CAUSE THE VIBES), I will still balance everything as it just adds to the job.

I have put various versions of this post everywhere on here........ I hope someone makes it a "sticky" as I feel it's important to some owners as it really spoiled my enjoyment, specially as BMW said it was "within limits" and I had to either cure the vibes or get rid of the bike, I'm glad I stuck with it as it now has 18k miles and is stunning to ride.

Anyone interested try bengarzy2@hotmail.com
Reply With Quote
This I-BMW member either likes, thanks -or- is 'shouting out' to 'Bengarzy' for this post:
851
  #2  
Old 09-04-2017, 10:11 AM
WPV's Avatar
WPV WPV is online now
Twisted Wrister
Post: 863 Thanks: 169
Thanked 216 Times in 156 Posts
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Tampa Area, FL USA
Re: K12 & 13 vibes, rattles and general harshness

Do you have a projected price for your kit? A non-binding estimate would be fine.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-04-2017, 10:39 AM
Bengarzy Bengarzy is offline
Shooting the gap
Post: 217 Thanks: 8
Thanked 92 Times in 53 Posts
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Red Lodge, Bury St Edmunds, England
Re: K12 & 13 vibes, rattles and general harshness

Quote:
Originally Posted by WPV
Do you have a projected price for your kit? A non-binding estimate would be fine.

I have a price of around 350 at the moment, ready to refit to the bike ( I have to have the entire primary and clutch as it is selective assembly, balancing etc)
That would be 250 if a new clutch is not fitted.... but would spoil the job as the new clutch eliminates the "crunch" into first, the judder and howling if you take off hard.
K1200 would be a bit more expensive but not vastly different.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-04-2017, 10:40 AM
Bengarzy Bengarzy is offline
Shooting the gap
Post: 217 Thanks: 8
Thanked 92 Times in 53 Posts
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Red Lodge, Bury St Edmunds, England
Re: K12 & 13 vibes, rattles and general harshness

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bengarzy
I have a price of around 350 at the moment, ready to refit to the bike ( I have to have the entire primary and clutch as it is selective assembly, balancing etc)
That would be 250 if a new clutch is not fitted.... but would spoil the job as the new clutch eliminates the "crunch" into first, the judder and howling if you take off hard.
K1200 would be a bit more expensive but not vastly different.

I can also fit to bike if needed at around 100 extra.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-04-2017, 02:01 PM
dmun's Avatar
dmun dmun is online now
Getting up to speed
Post: 74 Thanks: 11
Thanked 11 Times in 10 Posts
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: manassas, va usa
Re: K12 & 13 vibes, rattles and general harshness

any idea on shipping to the CONUS? does it include the clutch pack ( Barnett I imagine ) or does that need to be purchased separately?
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-04-2017, 02:15 PM
Bengarzy Bengarzy is offline
Shooting the gap
Post: 217 Thanks: 8
Thanked 92 Times in 53 Posts
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Red Lodge, Bury St Edmunds, England
Re: K12 & 13 vibes, rattles and general harshness

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmun
any idea on shipping to the CONUS? does it include the clutch pack ( Barnett I imagine ) or does that need to be purchased separately?

350 gets everything except carriage, not weighed it but it's got to be about 8ks.
Will find out more as and when
Ben
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-05-2017, 12:30 AM
DMcK DMcK is offline
Getting up to speed
Post: 29 Thanks: 3
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Boulder, CO United State
Re: K12 & 13 vibes, rattles and general harshness

I'm definitely interested. I'd like some more information on how well it works, but I certainly agree that my engine isn't as smooth as I think it should be!
Doug
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-05-2017, 06:16 AM
Bengarzy Bengarzy is offline
Shooting the gap
Post: 217 Thanks: 8
Thanked 92 Times in 53 Posts
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Red Lodge, Bury St Edmunds, England
Re: K12 & 13 vibes, rattles and general harshness

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMcK
I'm definitely interested. I'd like some more information on how well it works, but I certainly agree that my engine isn't as smooth as I think it should be!
Doug

Doug, when they are bad they are really not nice to ride, on long trips it gets worse as the heat soak expands the alloy cases to the max, if you only do short trips it's not terrible.
When I picked my bike up from Peterborough I had only got onto the A1 and new I was in trouble, by the time I got home I was on the phone........ BMW did nothing so I set about it myself, now I know more about the vibes than the factory😎😎
If it wasn't an absolute and permanent cure I wouldn't put it on here, it's not something I could just sell to you to fit yourself, it is very involved.
I certainly don't need the work but I don't want to waste all that I have learned on just one bike, the bonus of the work is it drastically reduces wear on the basket, eliminates the rattle from the idler gear, people (myself included) re shim to get the noisy end float sorted.
It would be a shame not to sort this out on a few more Ks because they are so great afterwards.
To be honest I would love to be able to explain what is making these engines vibrate like they do, it's real interesting as it explains why some are fine and others so nasty, maybe later when I have done a few.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-05-2017, 10:43 AM
DMcK DMcK is offline
Getting up to speed
Post: 29 Thanks: 3
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Boulder, CO United State
Re: K12 & 13 vibes, rattles and general harshness

Ben, just to be clear. Are you saying that this is a kit of parts, but that it's only something that you can install due to the nature of the modification?
For me that's a little impractical, given that I live in Colorado! (though I'm from Scotland).

My bike's a 2009 K1300GT. It's not toooo bad, but I certainly have vibration that I don't think should be there, especially once I've been riding a distance. If you make a kit that a reasonably adept, meticulous, owner could install then I'd be very interested.

Obviously, one concern is whether there are likely to be any unanticipated consequences than could affect the bike in the long term. Reduced vibrations/rattles are obviously mechanically good but could there be something else unanticipated? How many miles have you put on your new hardware so far.
I applaud your efforts!
Doug
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-06-2017, 12:22 AM
cstumpf750 cstumpf750 is online now
Shooting the gap
Post: 280 Thanks: 3
Thanked 110 Times in 78 Posts
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Re: K12 & 13 vibes, rattles and general harshness

He's saying you have to ship the clutch assembly to him so it can be modified and upgraded. Then he ships it back and you put it back in.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 09-06-2017, 09:19 AM
DMcK DMcK is offline
Getting up to speed
Post: 29 Thanks: 3
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Boulder, CO United State
Re: K12 & 13 vibes, rattles and general harshness

Ok, that makes sense. Thx.
Doug
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 09-11-2017, 05:10 AM
Bengarzy Bengarzy is offline
Shooting the gap
Post: 217 Thanks: 8
Thanked 92 Times in 53 Posts
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Red Lodge, Bury St Edmunds, England
Re: K12 & 13 vibes, rattles and general harshness

Well this is not looking good, I know it's difficult to trust someone you don't know from a hole in the ground but I haven't got anyone that's really interested so I won't be able to get the component that is custom made ordered, the reason is it's in tool steel (D2) and has 4 processes done before it's finished involving 3 different companies, cost is not finalised but around 80-90 is about right, then they are made in 3 different sizes, it's complicated.
Then there is a bearing and clutch for each unit. I need at least 20 for sure orders or I can't go ahead so it looks like a dead duck to me.
Ben
Reply With Quote
This I-BMW member either likes, thanks -or- is 'shouting out' to 'Bengarzy' for this post:
  #13  
Old 09-11-2017, 11:16 AM
DMcK DMcK is offline
Getting up to speed
Post: 29 Thanks: 3
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Boulder, CO United State
Re: K12 & 13 vibes, rattles and general harshness

Well, I'm as interested as I can be with the information I have. I'm an engineer type and am uncomfortable in committing to something I don't fully understand.

Am I correct in thinking that I'd send my clutch assembly to you, you'd fit the new part(s) and send it back?

Is the process reversible? Is it best to find a "sacrificial" clutch to send to you to work your magic on then I'll still have the bike in the meantime? Do you have any old clutches you can rework and just sell as a unit?

I hope you do get some more interest.
Doug
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 09-11-2017, 07:02 PM
dmun's Avatar
dmun dmun is online now
Getting up to speed
Post: 74 Thanks: 11
Thanked 11 Times in 10 Posts
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: manassas, va usa
Re: K12 & 13 vibes, rattles and general harshness

I'm interested as well but when I do the conversion math it comes to almost 500 US dollars with to and from shipping. then there is the labor as well. it looks like there are some special tools required for assembly and removal. I would probably pay my mechanic which would push the total up another 200 or so. maybe more.
I know this has to be financially viable for you and as much as I want to rid my bike of the vibrations I am not quite ready to cough up that amount of funding at this time.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 09-11-2017, 09:54 PM
DMcK DMcK is offline
Getting up to speed
Post: 29 Thanks: 3
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Boulder, CO United State
Re: K12 & 13 vibes, rattles and general harshness

So, is the need for 20 commitments because the setup costs are too much to build a smaller batch?
I'm hoping you get more interest.
doug
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 10-03-2017, 09:18 AM
DMcK DMcK is offline
Getting up to speed
Post: 29 Thanks: 3
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Boulder, CO United State
Re: K12 & 13 vibes, rattles and general harshness

What's the latest on this effort? Do you have anything like enough interest?

Doug
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 10-04-2017, 06:59 AM
Capt Howdy's Avatar
Capt Howdy Capt Howdy is online now
Moderator
Post: 2,189 Thanks: 931
Thanked 1,431 Times in 807 Posts
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Re: K12 & 13 vibes, rattles and general harshness

I'm interested Ben. Don't give up too quickly - I've only just seen this thread. Could you explain how the part works and where it fits
__________________
It's so nice to be insane-No one asks you to explain

2008 K1200R - B1.
2009 HP2 Sport. - B2
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 10-04-2017, 03:06 PM
Bengarzy Bengarzy is offline
Shooting the gap
Post: 217 Thanks: 8
Thanked 92 Times in 53 Posts
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Red Lodge, Bury St Edmunds, England
Re: K12 & 13 vibes, rattles and general harshness

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt Howdy
I'm interested Ben. Don't give up too quickly - I've only just seen this thread. Could you explain how the part works and where it fits

Well the problem for me is it's taken a whole lot of time and money (spent on a brand new bike) to find out exactly what makes a K1300 vibrate horribly and another not.
You see my friend and I bought identical Ks and I already new of the vibe prob from reports on here....... it had to be mine that was as rough as a bears arse and my buddies was smooth as silk. It would not help much if I told you what needs replacing as it's not available as an oversize part and this is one of the components I will make to factory spec, materials, accuracy and hardness will all be adhered to.
I also have to grade the parts accurately so there is 3 oversizes too, it's complicated.
The other side of the coin is it cures so many other problems this area suffers from, premature basket wear, noisy idler gear, rattles from the gear box on idle, noisy clutch, judder etc.
So many problems have just evaporated since finding why it vibrates and eliminating one problem then finding it's cured others too.
I have tried to talk to BMW to see if they are interested but no one has got back to me.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 10-04-2017, 07:59 PM
cstumpf750 cstumpf750 is online now
Shooting the gap
Post: 280 Thanks: 3
Thanked 110 Times in 78 Posts
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Re: K12 & 13 vibes, rattles and general harshness

How about making it an Indiegogo project?

https://www.indiegogo.com/

It would give more exposure and have enforceable goals to be met before proceeding with production.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 10-06-2017, 03:15 AM
GrenK1300s's Avatar
GrenK1300s GrenK1300s is offline
Exceeding Highway speeds
Post: 92 Thanks: 13
Thanked 21 Times in 15 Posts
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Banksia Beach, Queensland, Australia
Send a message via Skype™ to GrenK1300s
Re: K12 & 13 vibes, rattles and general harshness

Quote:
Originally Posted by cstumpf750
How about making it an Indiegogo project?

https://www.indiegogo.com/

It would give more exposure and have enforceable goals to be met before proceeding with production.

Ben, I started reading this thread as soon as I saw a view of the clutch assembly and just how much wear appeared on the unit. It was horrifying

I have had my bike since new in 2012, but for one reason or another it is just going in for it's 15K service. The only thing that pisses me off at the moment is the irregular "clunk" when you downshift into first. As it something I have had with my previous K1200RS I have become complacent about it. It does seem worse at different times, although I haven't paid enough attention to know whether or not it is cold or warm - the bike that is.

I would be interested in replacing said current clutch assembly if it became horribly vibrational and the noise also became oppressive.

For me it will cost quite a bit to send it to you and then have you resend the upgraded clutch assembly back to me. Its the equivalent of the other side of the bloody globe and prices to and from our little Island Continent are horrifying to say the least I am not sure if I saw your answer to the question of sending a sacrificial unit to you first, so that at least I could keep riding in great anticipation of getting a much deserved smooth ride from my pride and joy! I'd also need to understand (look at my instructional DVD and procrastinate a LOT!) how to get at the friggin' unit with limited loss of skin and the associated swearing and gnashing of teeth. I do like the swearing part though

If this is still a project awaiting numbers to validate the expense please let me know. Cheers, Grenville
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 10-06-2017, 04:10 PM
Bengarzy Bengarzy is offline
Shooting the gap
Post: 217 Thanks: 8
Thanked 92 Times in 53 Posts
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Red Lodge, Bury St Edmunds, England
Re: K12 & 13 vibes, rattles and general harshness

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrenK1300s
Ben, I started reading this thread as soon as I saw a view of the clutch assembly and just how much wear appeared on the unit. It was horrifying

I have had my bike since new in 2012, but for one reason or another it is just going in for it's 15K service. The only thing that pisses me off at the moment is the irregular "clunk" when you downshift into first. As it something I have had with my previous K1200RS I have become complacent about it. It does seem worse at different times, although I haven't paid enough attention to know whether or not it is cold or warm - the bike that is.

I would be interested in replacing said current clutch assembly if it became horribly vibrational and the noise also became oppressive.

For me it will cost quite a bit to send it to you and then have you resend the upgraded clutch assembly back to me. Its the equivalent of the other side of the bloody globe and prices to and from our little Island Continent are horrifying to say the least I am not sure if I saw your answer to the question of sending a sacrificial unit to you first, so that at least I could keep riding in great anticipation of getting a much deserved smooth ride from my pride and joy! I'd also need to understand (look at my instructional DVD and procrastinate a LOT!) how to get at the friggin' unit with limited loss of skin and the associated swearing and gnashing of teeth. I do like the swearing part though

If this is still a project awaiting numbers to validate the expense please let me know. Cheers, Grenville
Hi, I have no idea how many of these bikes vibrate like mine does but I bet it's a big percentage.
However there is not enough riders prepared to put there hand in there pocket and pay to get rid of it permanently, it's a real shame as it's like night and day afterwards.
My 1300 goes in March anyway so my interest will probably go with it I'm afraid, never mind I tried.
Ben
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 10-08-2017, 01:01 PM
DOA DOA is offline
Twisted Wrister
Post: 763 Thanks: 230
Thanked 169 Times in 135 Posts
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Alinor, FL USA
Re: K12 & 13 vibes, rattles and general harshness

If you are giving up, any chance you can do a "how to"?
I am in California so I cannot buy a pint and talk it over.
__________________
New K1300s on May 6 2015!
I would post a pic, but Priis looks like all the other Motorsport Editions out there.
Reply With Quote
This I-BMW member either likes, thanks -or- is 'shouting out' to 'DOA' for this post:
  #23  
Old 10-10-2017, 10:18 AM
DMcK DMcK is offline
Getting up to speed
Post: 29 Thanks: 3
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Boulder, CO United State
Re: K12 & 13 vibes, rattles and general harshness

Ben,

I still hope you get enough interest to make this project practical.
If, however, you do decide to move on to new things I, too, would be very interested in a description of what you've done.
At the very least it would give some guidance for me when I open up the bike and start inspecting/measuring things. If I do start swapping parts, then it would be good to know if I'm on the right track.

cheers
Doug
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 11-15-2017, 10:06 AM
Bengarzy Bengarzy is offline
Shooting the gap
Post: 217 Thanks: 8
Thanked 92 Times in 53 Posts
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Red Lodge, Bury St Edmunds, England
Re: K12 & 13 vibes, rattles and general harshness

Ok, so I can't interest enough riders to have there vibes eliminated and BMW are totally disinterested too, I will explain my findings and the absolute cure for a number of problems associated with the vibration that some of these superb bikes suffer from.
This will only mean something to the users that have had there primary gear apart though.

First I will tell you what WONT cure it..... the loose cushdrive springs are not the cause, they are like that from brand new.
Balancing makes a slight difference, a couple of hundred revs is it.
A slipper clutch improves a number of things but the vibes continues.

The real culprit is the out of tolerance centre sleeve to needle bearing!!!!!! It's that simple, as soon as there is a reduction in load on the primary gear (eased or closed throttle) the entire gear assembly oscillates or wobbles around the clutch hub and drive plates to the tune of
1-1.5 mm at the gear teeth!!! You need to see it to believe it.
This "wobble" not only causes the horrible vibration but also causes the idler to the alternater to rattle its end float and sound awful........ and guess what, it is also responsible for the clutch plate to basket slots wear too.

The cure is so simple too (but only if you are already in production) you make GRADED sizes of the hardened steel sleeve the bearing runs on when the clutch is disengaged and fit the appropriate size at assembly...... .05mm being the worst offender I can find, as soon as this clearance is reduced to zero the vibration vanishes, the idler stops rattling, as do most of the transmission noises on idle, and with the addition of a set of Barnett clutch plates (do not refit the belville spring and ring as it is counter productive to getting into first)

However the cost to make a small number of various sizes is prohibitive and I only have a hand full of riders that are remotely interested in a cure so can not go ahead.

I have offered to give the info to BMW but they are totally disinterested as the model is finished now, even though there will still be a large number still under warranty or extended warranty,
So there it is, a cure is possible but BMW (as usual) couldn't give a toss about there customers or improving there product, I offered to drive to Bracknell, take all my stuff and the results,at no cost to them, but they couldn't be arsed, so now I have given up and will turn my K in to them in March and go my own way. What a waste and a shame too.
Ben
Reply With Quote
The following (4) I-BMW members 'like', thank -or- are 'shouting out' to 'Bengarzy' for this post:
  #25  
Old 11-15-2017, 10:33 AM
Pirate's Avatar
Pirate Pirate is online now
Supporting Vendor
Post: 7,067 Thanks: 1,775
Thanked 2,106 Times in 812 Posts
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Asheville, NC USA
Re: K12 & 13 vibes, rattles and general harshness

Wow... While I didn't understand most of what you said...( over my Luddite head )... I thank you for taking the time to post this info. I've been fighting the buzz demons from day one. I never did solve my problems, but masked them enough where they don't torment me. Wish you were near here as I'd pay you to work on my bike..

BTW.. Of course BMW didn't accept your help and/or advice.. By taking your advice or even talking to you on the subject, they are admitting a problem.. which they'll never do unless lawsuits are on the horizon or under court order...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bengarzy

The real culprit is the out of tolerance centre sleeve to needle bearing!!!!!! It's that simple, as soon as there is a reduction in load on the primary gear (eased or closed throttle) the entire gear assembly oscillates or wobbles around the clutch hub and drive plates to the tune of
1-1.5 mm at the gear teeth!!! You need to see it to believe it.
This "wobble" not only causes the horrible vibration but also causes the idler to the alternater to rattle its end float and sound awful........ and guess what, it is also responsible for the clutch plate to basket slots wear too.

The cure is so simple too (but only if you are already in production) you make GRADED sizes of the hardened steel sleeve the bearing runs on when the clutch is disengaged and fit the appropriate size at assembly...... .05mm being the worst offender I can find, as soon as this clearance is reduced to zero the vibration vanishes, the idler stops rattling, as do most of the transmission noises on idle, and with the addition of a set of Barnett clutch plates (do not refit the belville spring and ring as it is counter productive to getting into first)

However the cost to make a small number of various sizes is prohibitive and I only have a hand full of riders that are remotely interested in a cure so can not go ahead.

I have offered to give the info to BMW but they are totally disinterested as the model is finished now, even though there will still be a large number still under warranty or extended warranty,
So there it is, a cure is possible but BMW (as usual) couldn't give a toss about there customers or improving there product, I offered to drive to Bracknell, take all my stuff and the results,at no cost to them, but they couldn't be arsed, so now I have given up and will turn my K in to them in March and go my own way. What a waste and a shame too.
Ben
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 11-15-2017, 10:56 AM
frankr frankr is offline
Has gotten a ticket or two…
Post: 176 Thanks: 11
Thanked 40 Times in 23 Posts
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Thunder Bay, ON Canada
Thumbs down Re: K12 & 13 vibes,Your location? INTERESTED

I had a new complete clutch put in about 4,000 miles ago. I used a lot when we were in the switchback roads of the various passes e.g. Stelvio. I presently have my bike up by York UK and will ride it again the summer of 2018 when we come back to the UK from Canada. Is it possible to have you do the kit at your place enroute to continental Europe? cost? My bike is a K1300GT 2010 with 86,000 miles on it.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 11-15-2017, 12:56 PM
bobby's Avatar
bobby bobby is offline
Site Contributor
Post: 2,067 Thanks: 79
Thanked 609 Times in 409 Posts
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: helena, mt us
Re: K12 & 13 vibes, rattles and general harshness

Thanks a lot for explaining the problem and the cure. That is a lot of hard work on your part. Jerry is right - BMW will never admit that there is a problem. And they gave up refining these bikes many years ago. The fact that they never installed electronic cruise control at the factory is just one example that they were no longer committed to the k model. The vibes on my particular bike are not to bad, although there is the ever present and annoying clunk into 1st. Thanks again.
__________________
Nothingness is unstable; therefore we are.

Black 2013 k1300s
Mandarin/Titan Silver Metallic 1999 r1100s
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 11-15-2017, 04:10 PM
Patrique83's Avatar
Patrique83 Patrique83 is online now
Site Contributor
Post: 573 Thanks: 59
Thanked 289 Times in 186 Posts
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Sydney, Australia
Re: K12 & 13 vibes, rattles and general harshness

This may not work for everyone,

But i initially had vibration too.

I installed a different clutch packet and swapped some plates out.
After quickly putting everything together (plates inserted one by one in the bike), the bike was vibrating.

Back to the garage and re-assembled the clutch properly.
The center plate wasn't 100% in the middle because of the tiny allenkey bolts.
The clutch packet didnt come out easily and i had to loosen the bolts.

It looked as if the packet became slightly unstacked to the side.

I suspect that the plates got pushed to one side and the whole packet begins to wobble.

I used my spare basket and reassembled it on the bench and voila......slight vibes at 4000 and only at 8000 do they come back.

My suggestion: Assemble the clutch properly.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 11-16-2017, 05:11 PM
Bengarzy Bengarzy is offline
Shooting the gap
Post: 217 Thanks: 8
Thanked 92 Times in 53 Posts
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Red Lodge, Bury St Edmunds, England
Re: K12 & 13 vibes, rattles and general harshness

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrique83
This may not work for everyone,

But i initially had vibration too.

I installed a different clutch packet and swapped some plates out.
After quickly putting everything together (plates inserted one by one in the bike), the bike was vibrating.

Back to the garage and re-assembled the clutch properly.
The center plate wasn't 100% in the middle because of the tiny allenkey bolts.
The clutch packet didnt come out easily and i had to loosen the bolts.

It looked as if the packet became slightly unstacked to the side.

I suspect that the plates got pushed to one side and the whole packet begins to wobble.

I used my spare basket and reassembled it on the bench and voila......slight vibes at 4000 and only at 8000 do they come back.

My suggestion: Assemble the clutch properly.

This is obviously something different, anything incorrectly assembled will cause problems.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 11-18-2017, 06:19 AM
Prospect Prospect is offline
Entering the on-ramp
Post: 6 Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Re: K12 & 13 vibes, rattles and general harshness

Are we talking about this sleeve that's positioned next to the clutch basket?

https://www.kfm-motorraeder.de/archi...1217700501.jpg
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 11-18-2017, 12:39 PM
Bengarzy Bengarzy is offline
Shooting the gap
Post: 217 Thanks: 8
Thanked 92 Times in 53 Posts
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Red Lodge, Bury St Edmunds, England
Re: K12 & 13 vibes, rattles and general harshness

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prospect
Are we talking about this sleeve that's positioned next to the clutch basket?

https://www.kfm-motorraeder.de/archi...1217700501.jpg

If you remove the primary gear you will see a needle roller bearing in its centre, the hardened steel sleeve this runs on is the part that requires grading for size to get a perfect clearance free fit on all engines not just some of them.
The big problem is the bearing relates to the size of bore it's pressed into and also varies slightly in itself, if you then always fit a standard sized sleeve (a BMW part) then if you are unlucky enough to have one with .0025" clearance from new it will vibrate as the gear will oscillate on this clearance which can be as much as .050 at the gears edge and as it weighs a good few kilos .............
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 11-18-2017, 10:35 PM
Dusty952 Dusty952 is offline
Has gotten a ticket or two…
Post: 142 Thanks: 331
Thanked 70 Times in 61 Posts
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Mill Bay B.C. Canada, Canada
Re: K12 & 13 vibes, rattles and general harshness

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bengarzy
If you remove the primary gear you will see a needle roller bearing in its centre, the hardened steel sleeve this runs on is the part that requires grading for size to get a perfect clearance free fit on all engines not just some of them.
The big problem is the bearing fit a standard sized sleeve (a BMW part) then if you are unlucky enough to have one with .0025" clearance from new it will vibrate as the gear will oscillate on this clearance which can be as much as .050 at the gears edge and as it weighs a good few kilos .............

Thank you for taking the time to post your results

Did you find an off the shelf sleeve that had a good fit to your needle bearing or did you manufacture a sleeve? Did you take the clearance right down to .000" or .0005" clearance?

I just installed a modified clutch basket with Barnett clutch pack in my K1200R. It still vibrates but not as bad as it did and I still have the clunk into first. I will be inspecting it at 500 miles and will check the clearance on the needle bearing to sleeve.

Dusty
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 11-19-2017, 05:01 AM
Prospect Prospect is offline
Entering the on-ramp
Post: 6 Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Re: K12 & 13 vibes, rattles and general harshness

I'm sorry but it would be incredibly helpful if there's a picture of the sleeve or bearing that you mention.

Here are some large picture of a 1200 basket

http://www.rubbersideup.com/08-bmw-k...43-21217724329
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 11-19-2017, 06:45 AM
Dusty952 Dusty952 is offline
Has gotten a ticket or two…
Post: 142 Thanks: 331
Thanked 70 Times in 61 Posts
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Mill Bay B.C. Canada, Canada
Re: K12 & 13 vibes, rattles and general harshness

Delete
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 11-19-2017, 06:55 AM
Bengarzy Bengarzy is offline
Shooting the gap
Post: 217 Thanks: 8
Thanked 92 Times in 53 Posts
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Red Lodge, Bury St Edmunds, England
Re: K12 & 13 vibes, rattles and general harshness

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dusty952
Thank you for taking the time to post your results

Did you find an off the shelf sleeve that had a good fit to your needle bearing or did you manufacture a sleeve? Did you take the clearance right down to .000" or .0005" clearance?

I just installed a modified clutch basket with Barnett clutch pack in my K1200R. It still vibrates but not as bad as it did and I still have the clunk into first. I will be inspecting it at 500 miles and will check the clearance on the needle bearing to sleeve.

Dusty
The sleeve or bush is a BMW part and all the same size, the needle roller varies in size slightly in its own right and is also influenced by the bore it is pressed into (its thin walled) so a problem can exist on a percentage of bikes.
This is the problem I have, I would have had to have made two or three sizes to eliminate the clearance to zero, with enough people interested I would have made a 50 off in 3 sizes.
Cost is the real problem as you have to start with a 2" dia. bar of D2 tool steel and rough turn it to an over size O/D and an under size I/D, next is heat treatment to harden the bush , next the bore has to be honed to make it round again (it distorts often in heat treatment) and to size, next job was to grind on centre to an oversize of .0015" .002" and .0025" and also grind the oil pump bearings surface to size. The bush is now centreless polished to finish.
The process will involve 4 totally different processes all of which I have used for the last 30 years, all would have to be payed for and as the numbers are so small most would be done on a minimum order basis or per part or by weight in the case of Heat treatment.
This would mean a cost of at least 100 per part and a lot of driving to each supplier, that's why I needed lots of interest and didn't get anywhere near enough.

The only way to check your clearance is to turn up on a lathe oversized plugs and fit to the bearing until there is no play then measure what you have turned up, I have 4 plugs of differing sizes.

Did you fit the entire Barnett pack and remove the Belleville ring and washer, that takes up a lot of clutch separation and is the cause of clutch drag and the clunk into first, remove and discard.

The needle bearing is made by a number of manufacturers and will vary slightly in size and could make a difference to the clearance and improve things but it is hit and miss.
Reply With Quote
The following (2) I-BMW members 'like', thank -or- are 'shouting out' to 'Bengarzy' for this post:
  #36  
Old 11-19-2017, 07:02 AM
Bengarzy Bengarzy is offline
Shooting the gap
Post: 217 Thanks: 8
Thanked 92 Times in 53 Posts
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Red Lodge, Bury St Edmunds, England
Re: K12 & 13 vibes, rattles and general harshness

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prospect
I'm sorry but it would be incredibly helpful if there's a picture of the sleeve or bearing that you mention.

Here are some large picture of a 1200 basket

http://www.rubbersideup.com/08-bmw-k...43-21217724329

If you look to the left of the clutch assembly you will see a sleeve, the plain diameter is what the primary gear runs on, the needle bearing you can see at the end is for the oil pump sprocket and NOT the main bearing that is pressed into the primary gear that is not visible.
Reply With Quote
This I-BMW member either likes, thanks -or- is 'shouting out' to 'Bengarzy' for this post:
DOA
  #37  
Old 11-19-2017, 07:07 AM
Bengarzy Bengarzy is offline
Shooting the gap
Post: 217 Thanks: 8
Thanked 92 Times in 53 Posts
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Red Lodge, Bury St Edmunds, England
Re: K12 & 13 vibes, rattles and general harshness

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prospect
Are we talking about this sleeve that's positioned next to the clutch basket?

https://www.kfm-motorraeder.de/archi...1217700501.jpg
That's the one, the needle bearing shown is for the oil pump sprocket and not the main one that runs on the rest of the sleeve.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 11-19-2017, 11:30 AM
DOA DOA is offline
Twisted Wrister
Post: 763 Thanks: 230
Thanked 169 Times in 135 Posts
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Alinor, FL USA
Re: K12 & 13 vibes, rattles and general harshness

Is there any method to fit the shaft?
i.e. plate it or something to allow machining to proper fit?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAeBpF84Q9M
__________________
New K1300s on May 6 2015!
I would post a pic, but Priis looks like all the other Motorsport Editions out there.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 11-19-2017, 11:54 AM
Prospect Prospect is offline
Entering the on-ramp
Post: 6 Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Re: K12 & 13 vibes, rattles and general harshness

That shouldn't be too difficult or expensive to machine. For my first bike I had an entire swingarm spindle machined and salt bath nitride hardened. Think I paid about 100 euros cash. That was 10yrs ago. Don't know if regulations on nitriding became more strict since then....
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 11-19-2017, 07:05 PM
Dusty952 Dusty952 is offline
Has gotten a ticket or two…
Post: 142 Thanks: 331
Thanked 70 Times in 61 Posts
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Mill Bay B.C. Canada, Canada
Re: K12 & 13 vibes, rattles and general harshness

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bengarzy
The sleeve or bush is a BMW part and all the same size, the needle roller varies in size slightly in its own right and is also influenced by the bore it is pressed into (its thin walled) so a problem can exist on a percentage of bikes.
This is the problem I have, I would have had to have made two or three sizes to eliminate the clearance to zero, with enough people interested I would have made a 50 off in 3 sizes.
Cost is the real problem as you have to start with a 2" dia. bar of D2 tool steel and rough turn it to an over size O/D and an under size I/D, next is heat treatment to harden the bush , next the bore has to be honed to make it round again (it distorts often in heat treatment) and to size, next job was to grind on centre to an oversize of .0015" .002" and .0025" and also grind the oil pump bearings surface to size. The bush is now centreless polished to finish.
The process will involve 4 totally different processes all of which I have used for the last 30 years, all would have to be payed for and as the numbers are so small most would be done on a minimum order basis or per part or by weight in the case of Heat treatment.
This would mean a cost of at least 100 per part and a lot of driving to each supplier, that's why I needed lots of interest and didn't get anywhere near enough.

The only way to check your clearance is to turn up on a lathe oversized plugs and fit to the bearing until there is no play then measure what you have turned up, I have 4 plugs of differing sizes.

Did you fit the entire Barnett pack and remove the Belleville ring and washer, that takes up a lot of clutch separation and is the cause of clutch drag and the clunk into first, remove and discard.

The needle bearing is made by a number of manufacturers and will vary slightly in size and could make a difference to the clearance and improve things but it is hit and miss.

My bike didn't have the belleville washer installed. It had the green rubber rings on the clutch plates. I will make up some plugs to size up the bore diameter.

Dusty
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 11-20-2017, 09:14 AM
Bengarzy Bengarzy is offline
Shooting the gap
Post: 217 Thanks: 8
Thanked 92 Times in 53 Posts
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Red Lodge, Bury St Edmunds, England
Re: K12 & 13 vibes, rattles and general harshness

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prospect
That shouldn't be too difficult or expensive to machine. For my first bike I had an entire swingarm spindle machined and salt bath nitride hardened. Think I paid about 100 euros cash. That was 10yrs ago. Don't know if regulations on nitriding became more strict since then....

That's one process and is case hardening (banned in that form now, nitride ovens only) to do this sleeve there is 4 or five processes needed, turning, hardening, honing, grinding and polishing. Your spindle would be simple by comparison and was nearly as expensive😎
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 11-20-2017, 09:16 AM
Bengarzy Bengarzy is offline
Shooting the gap
Post: 217 Thanks: 8
Thanked 92 Times in 53 Posts
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Red Lodge, Bury St Edmunds, England
Re: K12 & 13 vibes, rattles and general harshness

Quote:
Originally Posted by DOA
Is there any method to fit the shaft?
i.e. plate it or something to allow machining to proper fit?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAeBpF84Q9M
Hard chrome would be ok if it didn't have a roller bearing running on it, the surface would break up into flakes and go elsewhere.... not good.
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 11-20-2017, 11:20 AM
DOA DOA is offline
Twisted Wrister
Post: 763 Thanks: 230
Thanked 169 Times in 135 Posts
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Alinor, FL USA
Re: K12 & 13 vibes, rattles and general harshness

Do the bearings vary much? Wondering if buying a few might be an option for better fit.

Agreed Ben, chrome is out, machine new, build with weld or sleeve?
__________________
New K1300s on May 6 2015!
I would post a pic, but Priis looks like all the other Motorsport Editions out there.
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 11-20-2017, 02:54 PM
Prospect Prospect is offline
Entering the on-ramp
Post: 6 Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Re: K12 & 13 vibes, rattles and general harshness

So to summarize, BMW ruined a fine bike with a crap clutch basket: bad oiling of the clutch plates; crap springs and a out of whack clutch basket sleeve.
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 11-20-2017, 03:26 PM
Patrique83's Avatar
Patrique83 Patrique83 is online now
Site Contributor
Post: 573 Thanks: 59
Thanked 289 Times in 186 Posts
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Sydney, Australia
Re: K12 & 13 vibes, rattles and general harshness

Some people call it character.....
Others, love the excitement of repairing stuff @bengarzy

If you want a trouble free bike..... get a HARLEY HAHA HAHA

BMW's (cars and bikes) from the Year 2000 onwards (K1200-1300 from 04-16)
have just become less refinded for longevity.

Think of the first K-Series..... the brick.
From a 3 cylinder (K75) the brick motor derived to the 4 cyl. 1000-1200.

Max Hp was then closer to the 100hp mark +-20

The K1200-1300 were a totally new design.

Off course the bugs/gremlins from the K1200 were mostly eliminated.
Unfortunately the K1300 basket is the same as the K1200 clutch basket.
And, the Hp from a K1300 is a bit more then that of the K12.

I have a late 08 1200 basket, the needle rollers are alot smaller then that of the k1300 basket. The sleeve sits perfictly and there is no play.
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 11-21-2017, 04:11 AM
Bengarzy Bengarzy is offline
Shooting the gap
Post: 217 Thanks: 8
Thanked 92 Times in 53 Posts
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Red Lodge, Bury St Edmunds, England
Re: K12 & 13 vibes, rattles and general harshness

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dusty952
My bike didn't have the belleville washer installed. It had the green rubber rings on the clutch plates. I will make up some plugs to size up the bore diameter.

Dusty
Sorry, didn't notice yours was a K12.
I have bought 2 different makes of bearing, one had a synthetic cage and the other was the same as original and one was about .001" tighter when fitted but this wasn't in my bike and I never saw it again but it did feel better on test.
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 11-21-2017, 08:43 AM
Bengarzy Bengarzy is offline
Shooting the gap
Post: 217 Thanks: 8
Thanked 92 Times in 53 Posts
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Red Lodge, Bury St Edmunds, England
Re: K12 & 13 vibes, rattles and general harshness

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prospect
So to summarize, BMW ruined a fine bike with a crap clutch basket: bad oiling of the clutch plates; crap springs and a out of whack clutch basket sleeve.

My biggest gripe is the engine was designed and built to be super smooth, it has primary and secondary balancer shafts............. then when you complain about a vibration that obviously shouldn't be there BMW tell you to piss off, what do you know, it's within limits etc, obviously it's not within limits as it vibrates like a bastard and spoils what is otherwise a great bike.
Many years ago I had a new BMW 325i that had a cold piston rattle, they wouldn't have it so I told the dealer to remove and strip the engine at my expense, but if I was right they would pay.
The engine was stripped and number 3 cylinder was barrel shaped in the middle, they paid.
I have had a lot of cars and bikes in my near 70 years....... Yamaha are by far the best at warranty work and keeping you as a customer (I had 7 from them) on the bike side and Audi on the car side........ BMW on the other hand will drive you mad before they will agree there is a fault (if it hasn't Brocken or stopped) and always fight tooth and nail not to fix what wants fixing, I have spoken in confidence with a number of employees of the company in the U.K. About there attitude and the German philosophy is "they are never wrong" until it's obvious they are.....
Don't know if you are all aware that the K1200 was introduced to the biking press and was found to be so bad i.e. Seriously bad handling, terrible transmission and evil vibration that BMW shelved the launch for a year and came back with something that still had issues but was better......... doesn't really sound like a company that's "never wrong" does it, then they give the power unit to a British company, Ricardo, to sort it out and it becomes the K1300 still not perfect but new piston, combustion chamber shape and new electronics make it run properly,and this from a company that's "never wrong"
What BMW should really be doing, bearing in mind the bikes crappy history is to look after there customers BETTER than any other company to rectify what has gone before......... but then they are "never wrong". Feel better now😂😂😂
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 11-22-2017, 03:57 PM
DMcK DMcK is offline
Getting up to speed
Post: 29 Thanks: 3
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Boulder, CO United State
Re: K12 & 13 vibes, rattles and general harshness

Ben,
Is it possible to get an idea of how bad a bike has this particular problem by simply taking off the cover and trying to rock the clutch basket from side to side?

Doug
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 11-22-2017, 08:30 PM
bobby's Avatar
bobby bobby is offline
Site Contributor
Post: 2,067 Thanks: 79
Thanked 609 Times in 409 Posts
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: helena, mt us
Re: K12 & 13 vibes, rattles and general harshness

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bengarzy
My biggest gripe is the engine was designed and built to be super smooth, it has primary and secondary balancer shafts............. then when you complain about a vibration that obviously shouldn't be there BMW tell you to piss off, what do you know, it's within limits etc, obviously it's not within limits as it vibrates like a bastard and spoils what is otherwise a great bike.

What BMW should really be doing, bearing in mind the bikes crappy history is to look after there customers BETTER than any other company to rectify what has gone before......... but then they are "never wrong". Feel better now😂😂😂

I guess ill weigh in on this discussing and say that I have had 2 k12s and 2 k13s bikes and I never thought the vibrations were bad at all. I'm sure some bikes have problems but I'm not convince it is systemic problem. I'm also sure that those with vibby bikes would disagree. What gripes me the most about these bikes is the clunky transmission. I have never owned a bike that shifts as bad as these bikes. The only vehicle that shifts this bad is my farm tractor.

There is no doubt that the mothership doesn't give a rats ass about systematic problems. As just one example, if your i-abs (ABSIII) malfunctions, which has happened to a high percentage of bikes, there is no repair possible and BMW won't give you break on a replacement modulator. For crying out loud it was a manufacturesweat problem. I guess BMW just figures most customers will just buy a newer model so those of us with k bikes aren't worth paying any attention to. Great service, huh.
__________________
Nothingness is unstable; therefore we are.

Black 2013 k1300s
Mandarin/Titan Silver Metallic 1999 r1100s
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 11-23-2017, 06:31 AM
Prospect Prospect is offline
Entering the on-ramp
Post: 6 Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Re: K12 & 13 vibes, rattles and general harshness

@Bengarzy in total agreement with what you say about the k bike and BMW. BMW are just terrible. Look at the 1200 gs wasserboxer with the telelever stanchion snapping. Took a heroic effort for BMW to admit the problem and come up with a fix.
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old 11-23-2017, 07:33 AM
Bengarzy Bengarzy is offline
Shooting the gap
Post: 217 Thanks: 8
Thanked 92 Times in 53 Posts
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Red Lodge, Bury St Edmunds, England
Re: K12 & 13 vibes, rattles and general harshness

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMcK
Ben,
Is it possible to get an idea of how bad a bike has this particular problem by simply taking off the cover and trying to rock the clutch basket from side to side?

Doug

That's the problem Doug, the anti backlash gear on the back of the main gear is heavily sprung to do its job so it would mask the rocking movement of the gear totally, I have tried this before but it is only when I got the assembly in a lathe chuck did I see how bad it was, I then mounted a DTI on the lathe bed and measured the rocking at the gear teeth and found .055" on my original brand new gear. This was the worst offender out of all the ones I tested after !!!
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 11-23-2017, 07:44 AM
Bengarzy Bengarzy is offline
Shooting the gap
Post: 217 Thanks: 8
Thanked 92 Times in 53 Posts
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Red Lodge, Bury St Edmunds, England
Re: K12 & 13 vibes, rattles and general harshness

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prospect
@Bengarzy in total agreement with what you say about the k bike and BMW. BMW are just terrible. Look at the 1200 gs wasserboxer with the telelever stanchion snapping. Took a heroic effort for BMW to admit the problem and come up with a fix.

Yep, saw that one, so they actually admitted it wasn't strong enough in the end?
They really are a shocking company to deal with if you get problems, I guess there just must be enough new customers to keep them in profit so they don't give a sh1t about customers with a real problem...... The whole point about this vibe is that if they had looked at it like I did and kept at it until the reason for it was found..... the fix is so cheap if you are in production of the offending part..... you make a few oversize sleeves, give them to all distributors with the usual instructions and bingo it saves a fortune and a huge number of customers that will never touch BMW again
When pushed really hard they have eventually fitted new engines or replaced the bike completely...... I can only think these customers got legal to arrive at that but because BMW had no idea what caused the vibes and rattles they were forced to spend a huge amount of money to correct something so minor, the mind boggles.
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 11-23-2017, 07:55 AM
Bengarzy Bengarzy is offline
Shooting the gap
Post: 217 Thanks: 8
Thanked 92 Times in 53 Posts
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Red Lodge, Bury St Edmunds, England
Re: K12 & 13 vibes, rattles and general harshness

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobby
I guess ill weigh in on this discussing and say that I have had 2 k12s and 2 k13s bikes and I never thought the vibrations were bad at all. I'm sure some bikes have problems but I'm not convince it is systemic problem. I'm also sure that those with vibby bikes would disagree. What gripes me the most about these bikes is the clunky transmission. I have never owned a bike that shifts as bad as these bikes. The only vehicle that shifts this bad is my farm tractor.

There is no doubt that the mothership doesn't give a rats ass about systematic problems. As just one example, if your i-abs (ABSIII) malfunctions, which has happened to a high percentage of bikes, there is no repair possible and BMW won't give you break on a replacement modulator. For crying out loud it was a manufacturesweat problem. I guess BMW just figures most customers will just buy a newer model so those of us with k bikes aren't worth paying any attention to. Great service, huh.

You are right about the vibes, some definitely are great and smooth, we bought 2 identical bikes on the same day...... guess what, Paul's bike was smooth as silk, mine as rough as a bears bum.
However Paul's bike developed an oil leak on the crankcase joint and had to be split and re sealed, his K now vibrates worse than mine but they won't say what they replaced other than oil seals and silicone sealer........ they both go shortly anyway.
Even BMW personel (most ex personel) will tell you BMW actually teach warranty avoidance.
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 11-24-2017, 05:45 AM
Bengarzy Bengarzy is offline
Shooting the gap
Post: 217 Thanks: 8
Thanked 92 Times in 53 Posts
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Red Lodge, Bury St Edmunds, England
Re: K12 & 13 vibes, rattles and general harshness

Just read up on the front fork failure on the 1200 GS and BMWs lack of admission or response on this safety issue for over 2 years, seems this guy was spat off his bike by it and has been campaigning since to get BMW to admit there's a problem..... there is now a total recall of 160,000 bikes world wide for a mod to make the forks stronger.
My point is what chance have we all got with none safety issues with there bikes if they ignore this issue and white wash it until forced by public pressure to sort it.
I'm done with BMW.
Ben
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 11-24-2017, 09:38 AM
vm5 vm5 is online now
Entering the on-ramp
Post: 16 Thanks: 1
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Padova, italy
Re: K12 & 13 vibes, rattles and general harshness

Very interesting post Bengarzy!
My k 1300 has only 6500 K km. and doesn't vibrate. It produce only a strage rumor when I close the throttle especially driving down from a mountain pass. It seems to be produced by the closed butterflies but reading at Your suggestion it should be also coming from the primary gear..
And consider a plasma metallized coating plus honing of the original bush? I used some time this way to recover damaged surfaces on engine shaft ,that worked on bushing , with good results.
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 11-24-2017, 05:35 PM
Bengarzy Bengarzy is offline
Shooting the gap
Post: 217 Thanks: 8
Thanked 92 Times in 53 Posts
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Red Lodge, Bury St Edmunds, England
Re: K12 & 13 vibes, rattles and general harshness

Quote:
Originally Posted by vm5
Very interesting post Bengarzy!
My k 1300 has only 6500 K km. and doesn't vibrate. It produce only a strage rumor when I close the throttle especially driving down from a mountain pass. It seems to be produced by the closed butterflies but reading at Your suggestion it should be also coming from the primary gear..
And consider a plasma metallized coating plus honing of the original bush? I used some time this way to recover damaged surfaces on engine shaft ,that worked on bushing , with good results.

I think you will find that building up a shaft or similar will only work with plain bearings, a needle roller would break it down into small particles due to the hard surface contact of rollers.
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 11-25-2017, 07:01 PM
icecolder icecolder is offline
Getting up to speed
Post: 68 Thanks: 2
Thanked 23 Times in 15 Posts
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Re: K12 & 13 vibes, rattles and general harshness

It is just an idea, but has anyone ever suspected the stretched timing chain could cause the vibrations too? Because found few reviews how people changed their timing chains and that fixed all vibrations.
Because sprockets are not adjustbale so timing goes away with a time and you need to replace chain to put timing back into position. The lifetime of the chain for thous bikes are short- 40k for a soft riding and not giving it a hard time. In reality i suspect it is much shorter. You can check your timing by locking crankshaft, then tensioning lower part of chain and taking a look where is a markings on a camshaft sprocket. Mine had some missaligne before the season. Now some vibrations started to appear. Going to change chain this winter and to check out does it efects vibrations or not. But might be someone already tried this and would like to share experience?
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 11-26-2017, 05:09 AM
Bengarzy Bengarzy is offline
Shooting the gap
Post: 217 Thanks: 8
Thanked 92 Times in 53 Posts
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Red Lodge, Bury St Edmunds, England
Re: K12 & 13 vibes, rattles and general harshness

Quote:
Originally Posted by icecolder
It is just an idea, but has anyone ever suspected the stretched timing chain could cause the vibrations too? Because found few reviews how people changed their timing chains and that fixed all vibrations.
Because sprockets are not adjustbale so timing goes away with a time and you need to replace chain to put timing back into position. The lifetime of the chain for thous bikes are short- 40k for a soft riding and not giving it a hard time. In reality i suspect it is much shorter. You can check your timing by locking crankshaft, then tensioning lower part of chain and taking a look where is a markings on a camshaft sprocket. Mine had some missaligne before the season. Now some vibrations started to appear. Going to change chain this winter and to check out does it efects vibrations or not. But might be someone already tried this and would like to share experience?

The vibes I was chasing were there from brand new and although a sloppy timing chain can rattle and the valve timing can change slightly through stretch it won't give the sort of vibes we have here, i.e. Hard on the throttle=no vibration, closed throttle or cruising through 5k-3k horrible vibes.
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 11-29-2017, 12:20 AM
Dirk C Dirk C is offline
Getting up to speed
Post: 21 Thanks: 8
Thanked 7 Times in 4 Posts
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Klerksdorp, SA South Africa
Re: K12 & 13 vibes, rattles and general harshness

Hi Bengarzy
I agree with you 100% my 2010 k13s had the same symptoms as yours.It was vibrating form new with No noise " Hard on the throttle=no vibration, closed throttle or cruising through 5k-3k horrible vibes."The noise started at around 7000 km on the clock and just kept on increasing.That spoiled the bike for me .My 2005 k12s had no noise or vibration.
Best of luck.
Dirk c
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 11-30-2017, 11:58 AM
Bengarzy Bengarzy is offline
Shooting the gap
Post: 217 Thanks: 8
Thanked 92 Times in 53 Posts
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Red Lodge, Bury St Edmunds, England
Re: K12 & 13 vibes, rattles and general harshness

I have had 4 responses from guys world wide that have fixed this vibration, what you need to do is get hold of two or three bearings of the same spec from different manufactures, press them into the gear then test fit the sleeve until you find the tightest push fit.
The result is vibration free riding, it is also the cheapest and simplest solution, so I will leave you to sort your vibes out yourself because BMW sure as shit wont😎😎
Ben
Reply With Quote
This I-BMW member either likes, thanks -or- is 'shouting out' to 'Bengarzy' for this post:
DOA
Reply


Thread Tools..
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:49 PM.


I-BMW.com is via vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 1998 - 2018, I-BMW.com LLC .
Page generated in 1.19110 seconds with 14 queries