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"K13S/R" Technical Q&A K1200S/R Technical Questions/Answers

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  #1  
Old 02-28-2018, 08:49 PM
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Non-Vented Final Drive Housing

So I went for a ride on Tuesday (mild temps here) and when I got home drained the Final Drive Oil. As soon as the O-Ring was exposed I noticed the Oil gushed/sprayed out at first, indicating built up air pressure inside. Note: the last time I changed it I refilled with 180 ml Castrol Syntrax Limited Slip 75W-90.

I'm thinking the worst case scenario air pressure inside the FD would be due to a combination of the following Factors:

1. Refilled at Sea Level (14.7 PSI).

2. Riding on a hot day, say greater than 100 F (37.7 C).

3. Riding at much higher altitude, say greater that 10,000 Feet (3 km).

4. Extra-Legal speeds (greater heat due to higher loads).

4. (Optional) decorative FD Hole Cover that restricts air flow through the Axle hole.

With all this in mind I would suspect it'd be easy for Air to become entrained in the FD Oil (not good for lubricity quality - ask any Tribologist). Also, an FD Seal failure wouldn't surprise me either.

So how to eliminate the influence of these combined factors?

Here's a few thoughts:

1. Refill the FD at very high altitude (lower Atmospheric Pressure)?

- OR -

2. Evacuate some of the Air after refilling the FD, say to down to 7 PSI? Prolly need a check valve on the Fill Plug - not much room there?

- OR -

3. Add a Vent Line by putting a Fitting on the Fill Plug and running a Hose off the fitting along the Swing Arm towards the Swing Arm Pivot then angling the other end upward. Then add a small K&N Filter on the end (did something similar like this to my R1100S Transmission after discovering air entrainment).

Lastly, would it now be possible to go back to refilling the FD with 220 ml of FD Oil?
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  #2  
Old 02-28-2018, 09:13 PM
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Re: Non-Vented Final Drive Housing

The final drive is designed to be sealed. No Vent. Don't worry about it. That is why the fill level went from 220ml to 180ml, to give more air space for pressure changes with out pushing oil out of the 60mm seal on the left. Fill it and forget it. (limited slip oil?, as long as it is GL5 or better what the heck I guess).
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  #3  
Old 02-28-2018, 09:45 PM
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Re: Non-Vented Final Drive Housing

Castrol Syntrax Limited Slip 75W-90 is API GL-5 Rated.

So I take it you're not too concerned Beech, and since your K1300S has >100k miles it's OK.
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Old 03-01-2018, 12:21 AM
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Re: Non-Vented Final Drive Housing

Hi r111s
Had the same problem with my r1200s final drive after it was rebuild by myself.So what i did was to refill with 180ml and took the bike for a run about 40km after i came back the final drive was nice and hot,so i immediately removed the speed pickup sensor on the final drive and the hot air escape.thus equalizing the pressure :yelrotflmao :Been riding for 2 or 3 thousand km with smiles..
Best regards.
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Old 03-01-2018, 12:34 AM
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Re: Non-Vented Final Drive Housing

Quote:
Originally Posted by R111S
So I take it you're not too concerned Beech, and since your K1300S has >100k miles it's OK.
nope, The oil lubes the gears not the bearings, they are sealed. All is good. I change it every other engine oil change. No worries.
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Old 03-01-2018, 12:15 PM
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Re: Non-Vented Final Drive Housing

Quote:
Originally Posted by R111S
Here's a few thoughts:

1. Refill the FD at very high altitude (lower Atmospheric Pressure)?

- OR -

2. Evacuate some of the Air after refilling the FD, say to down to 7 PSI? Prolly need a check valve on the Fill Plug - not much room there?

- OR -

3. Add a Vent Line by putting a Fitting on the Fill Plug and running a Hose off the fitting along the Swing Arm towards the Swing Arm Pivot then angling the other end upward. Then add a small K&N Filter on the end (did something similar like this to my R1100S Transmission after discovering air entrainment).

Lastly, would it now be possible to go back to refilling the FD with 220 ml of FD Oil?

You are totally OVERTHINKING this! The rear drive may have no vent, but there is no way that it is actually hermetically sealed. Eventually any residual pressure will equalize. The new generation of rear drives (those with no actual vent) are very reliable, so what actual benefit do you expect to get from this?
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  #7  
Old 03-01-2018, 07:35 PM
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Re: Non-Vented Final Drive Housing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirk C
Hi r111s
Had the same problem with my r1200s final drive after it was rebuild by myself.So what i did was to refill with 180ml and took the bike for a run about 40km after i came back the final drive was nice and hot,so i immediately removed the speed pickup sensor on the final drive and the hot air escape.thus equalizing the pressure :yelrotflmao :Been riding for 2 or 3 thousand km with smiles..
Best regards.
Dirk.

Thanks for confirming this issue Dirk! I will try your clever idea.
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Old 03-03-2018, 12:02 AM
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Re: Non-Vented Final Drive Housing

So I followed the procedure given by Dirk C and sure enough a "chuf" of hot air escaped the Fill Plug as it neared the last thread when being removed.

I didn't loosen the Muffler nor take the Brake Caliper off. First I put it on the Center Stand. I then unbolted the Rear Wheel and let it down to rest on the garage floor. Next I reached into the Fill Plug, between the Wheel Spokes and a gap in the Brake Disc, with a foot long extension on my 3/8" Drive Ratchet to loosen the Fill Plug till the "Chuf" of hot air escaped. Then immediately tightened the Fill Plug closed.

I'm hoping this will reduce the peak pressure inside the Non-Vented FD when the case is hot (normal operating temp). Thus hopefully no need to carry a spare 60 mm FD Seal like some here on the Forum recommend.
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  #9  
Old 03-04-2018, 12:19 PM
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Re: Non-Vented Final Drive Housing

Just a passing thought with no basis to suspect it is the case, but wouldn't the pressurized when warm housing assist in prevention of oil frothing? I believe this is the case in some shock absorbers.
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Old 03-04-2018, 10:30 PM
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Re: Non-Vented Final Drive Housing

Quote:
Originally Posted by WPV
Just a passing thought with no basis to suspect it is the case, but wouldn't the pressurized when warm housing assist in prevention of oil frothing? I believe this is the case in some shock absorbers.

You may he something there. Isn't there some kind of seal between the Air and Oil though in Dampers to avoid air and oil mixing?
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  #11  
Old 03-05-2018, 12:08 AM
Dirk C Dirk C is offline
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Re: Non-Vented Final Drive Housing

HI R111s
Yes Ohlin uses nitrogen to suppress the oil from foaming up.Oxygen will do noting to stop foaming oil.
Regards.
Dirk.
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  #12  
Old 03-05-2018, 04:33 AM
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Re: Non-Vented Final Drive Housing

Air must be avoided in shocks because it contains water. That can evaporate which causes a rise in pressure, it can cause rust and it can freeze. Oil in contact with air (oxygen) will also degrade faster.
Nitrogen is cheap, non flammable and contains no water.

To prevent foaming of the damper oil, the shock body must contain only oil, no gas. Nitrogen in shocks is used to compensate for the volume of the shock's damper rod that enters the shock body during compression. Also to compensate for the expansion of the damper oil when warming up. In a good shock design the nitrogen is contained in a bladder or is seperated from the oil by a floating piston.
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Old 03-09-2018, 02:33 AM
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Re: Non-Vented Final Drive Housing

Quote:
Originally Posted by RFW
You are totally OVERTHINKING this! The rear drive may have no vent, but there is no way that it is actually hermetically sealed. Eventually any residual pressure will equalize. The new generation of rear drives (those with no actual vent) are very reliable, so what actual benefit do you expect to get from this?

I agree with Bob. Have 98000km (nearly 61000 miles). I still have the original 60mm FD seal and have run 185 ml of 80-140 since new. I know - it's not what's recommended. Pressure buildup when hot will subside when the diff cools down as RFW said. I'm guessing your method will introduce a vacuum into the FD when it cools down and I don't know if that could deform the seal which works from the opposite direction. But I could be overthinking it.
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Old 03-09-2018, 09:55 AM
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Re: Non-Vented Final Drive Housing

Never mind.
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Old 03-10-2018, 11:35 PM
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Re: Non-Vented Final Drive Housing

So, at the risk of "beating a dead horse", I looked at some Differential Vent solutions the Off-Roaders use to keep water/filth out of a vented Differential:

Check this small Bellows solution:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/t...-kit/overview/

I think the Bellows would keep condensation out unlike a vented to atmosphere unit would. It would be interesting to observe it expanding when the Diff heats up and retracting when cooling off.

The best part is the air pressure on the inside of the Diff matches the air pressure outside the Diff and thus the Differential Seals (I think there are 3 right?) have equal pressure on both sides...and maybe no more Seal failures during expected service life?
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Old 03-11-2018, 12:00 PM
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Re: Non-Vented Final Drive Housing

All automobile differentials are vented and don't seem to suffer from the dreaded moisture problem unless submerged. For what it's worth, I opened a very rusty vented differential housing on a 1963 Corvette a couple of years ago. My observation - inside, no rust. So, I'm not sure that vented or not vented makes much difference if a proper vent is in an appropriate location and the gear box is not submerged.
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