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  #1  
Old 01-10-2017, 02:38 PM
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Who's the greatest?

A little off-season bench racing anyone? Who is your all time favorite?

http://superbikeplanet.com/2017/Jan/...70108-1702.htm

All-Time MotoGP/500cc Winning Percentage
Greatest of all-time strictly by the numbers
by Soup Staff
Monday, January 09, 2017


MotoGP Winning Percentage (Riders with at least 10 wins thru 2016)
First Last Wins Races Win Pct.
1 John Surtees 22 26 84.6%
2 Mike Hailwood 37 59 62.7%
3 Geoff Duke 22 37 59.5%
4 Giacomo Agostini 68 117 58.1%
5 Marc Marquez 29 72 40.3%
6 Kenny Roberts 22 55 40.0%
7 Mick Doohan 54 137 39.4%
8 Casey Stoner 38 115 33.0%
9 Freddie Spencer 20 62 32.3%
10 Valentino Rossi 88 288 30.6%
11 Phil Read 11 38 28.9%
12 Wayne Rainey 24 83 28.9%
13 Jorge Lorenzo 44 156 28.2%
14 Eddie Lawson 31 127 24.4%
15 Kevin Schwantz 25 105 23.8%
16 Barry Sheene 19 87 21.8%
17 Wayne Gardner 18 102 17.6%
18 Dani Pedrosa 29 181 16.0%
19 Alex Criville 15 139 10.8%
20 Max Biaggi 13 127 10.2%
21 Randy Mamola 13 142 9.2%


Since it's the hot stove time of the season, we thought it might be interesting and go back and look at the all-time winning percentages of the top MotoGP/500cc riders throughout history.

We looked only at riders with at least 10 premier class victories.

Some will argue winning percentage is one way to compare riders from different eras, but that can be tricky. As one longtime racing pundit put it, "It's one thing to talk about riders like Rossi and Marquez who have competed against a number of other factory riders their entire careers, to a rider like Agostini who raced a factory MV mostly against a bunch of privateers on Nortons."

It may be a surprise to modern GP racing fans that Brit great John Surtees won a stunning 84.6 percent of the premier class GP races he started. Some counter that Surtees' numbers should not be counted since he had well less than half as many GP starts as most of the other riders on the list. Surtees switched to Formula 1 car racing full-time when he was just 26 years old. It would have been interesting to see what his numbers would have been had he raced into his early 30s, which would have put him quitting just about the time the Agostini era began.

Many who were around during his era still ardently claim Mike Hailwood as the greatest motorcycle racer of all time. That claim is bolstered by perhaps the most legendary motorcycle racing story of the sport's history, when in 1978, at the age of 38, Hailwood made a comeback after being away from motorcycle racing for 11 years and won the Formula One TT at the Isle of Man riding a Ducati 900SS. Then to put icing on the cake, he came back and won the Senior TT the next year on a Suzuki RG500!

Some would also be surprised to learn that eight-time 500cc GP World Champ Giacomo Agostini is only fourth on the all-time winning percentage list. It's still amazing to consider that the only rider among the top six on the list to have over 100 race starts that he won at a clip of 58.1 percent of the time.

Were you surprised to see Kenny Roberts' winning percentage, coming in at 40 percent, is essentially equal to that of current world champion Marc Marquez? Roberts earns the distinction of having the highest winning percentage among the long list of American racing greats.

And finally, the most surprising stat of all perhaps is the fact that Valentino Rossi has fallen so far down the list and is now ranked only tenth. In 2005 Rossi was atop the list of modern riders with a winning percentage of 56 percent, but continuing to race undeniably past his all-time prime, has witnessed his winning percentage tumbling down over 25 percentage points.

The question is, does the fact that Rossi's winning percentage currently is only tenth best and that he could very possibly fall out of the top 10 in the next couple of years affect his staus of being the greatest of all-time? Probably not to his many fans.

Working against Rossi is the fact that Ago' has more premier class titles (eight vs. seven) and now of course his dwindling winning percentage.

On the plus side is Rossi's sheer number of premier class wins, an all-time record of 88 as opposed to second-place Agostini with 68 wins. That and the fact that Rossi inarguably won his seven premier world championships against a deeper field of competition that that of riders like Agostini ...

Looking at the sheer raw numbers of winning percentage, where would you place riders like Surtees, Hailwood and Geoff Duke in terms of all-time greats?

At the very least it makes for great off-season discussions.

ENDS
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  #2  
Old 01-10-2017, 06:46 PM
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Re: Who's the greatest?

I love Marques, and Casey Stoner.
But for me it Mick Doohan, absolute legend.
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  #3  
Old 01-10-2017, 06:57 PM
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Re: Who's the greatest?

I'm torn, I have two all time favorites.



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Old 01-10-2017, 08:09 PM
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Re: Who's the greatest?

Halfway with you this time Rick, back in the day when I was able to get press and photo passes for all the west coast race tracks, Laguna, Willow, Riverside, maybe the best photo I ever took, standing in the grass in the apex of what was turn 9, now 11, at Laguna Seca. this guy, The King, could ride anything better than anyone else, so, Long Live the King, he's my all time favorite motorcycle racer. However, as for the greatest MotoGP racer, Valentino Rossi, incredible talent, longevity, and charisma, the sport will not be the same when he hangs up his leathers.

But, again, my all time favorite,

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Old 01-10-2017, 10:42 PM
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Re: Who's the greatest?

I wait for the day another US rider goes over there and dominates like King Kenny first did...

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Old 01-11-2017, 05:18 AM
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Re: Who's the greatest?

i would say Rossi ... just because of all the different hardware he was successful on, no ?
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Old 01-11-2017, 07:17 AM
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Re: Who's the greatest?

I also will go with Rossi. His winning percentage is not as great as others I think most of that is due to how long he has been at it.

The past few years he has been nothing short of unbelievable in my opinion - he almost won the world championship 2 years ago - and had a great year last year.

Even for the racing fans that don't like him - if he was not in the series especially these past 5 years I'm not so sure how well the series would have done - one thing is for certain he is still a driving force in the MotoGP world in regard to ticket sales.
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Old 01-11-2017, 08:16 AM
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Re: Who's the greatest?

King Kenny changed the way road racers ride (not many racers can say that), but The Doctor has had more success on more different bikes (brand and type) over a longer period of time than anyone ever. Now, Marquez may eventually pass him as the greatest, but people said that about Tiger Woods and Jack Nicklaus. Until it happens, it hasn't happened.
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Old 01-11-2017, 08:29 AM
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Re: Who's the greatest?

The Doctor
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Old 01-13-2017, 01:25 PM
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Re: Who's the greatest?

#46 , adjusting to the most changes during his tenure
in the racing forum.
Can't see putting up #93 yet, he has the talent but also
a long way to go before bouncing up against the rest.
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Old 01-13-2017, 05:06 PM
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Re: Who's the greatest?

The first, what is now Moto GP, that I saw was on Wide World of Sports, might even have been in black and white. KR and Barry Sheene in the rain, Kenny wearing the buck ninety eight yellow vinyl rain suit, and I think Barry with clear plastic... Barry had on rain tires, and Kenny was on slicks. Kenny rode EXACTLY in the clear groove that Barry's tires made for him until the last lap.
I think Mick Dohan overcame the most adversity, and simply could not get through the corkscrew. John Surtees might have been the most versatile. Mike the Bike might have been the most naturally gifted. Kenny is King. Rossi has amazed me, and I feel for him over the Simonchelli (sp?) crash. Wayne Rainey has always been a favorite, and we shall see what effect he will have on AMA, and I wish him improved health. Likewise, Kevin Schwantz has always been a favorite. Eddie Lawson married well. Freddie Spencer lives in Kenny's shadow, but was very accomplished. Ago was too handsome. I wonder if Marquez will catch up to Rossi? I'm in awe of those who possess the combination of gifts that lets them go like stink on a GP or World Super Bike. Even "The Bruise" has my utmost respect. If only my parents would have put me on a motorcycle at age 4... So, who's the greatest? What could Hailwood have done on modern equipment? John Surtees might have been the one to spank anyone in any era. The Doctor had the technique to dominate. Hard to tell if my favorites could have been The GOAT, but fun to think about.
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Old 01-13-2017, 05:10 PM
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Re: Who's the greatest?

BTW Had the privledge of seeing KR flat track the TZ750. The most frightening thing I've ever watched. And the loudest.
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Old 01-14-2017, 09:56 PM
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Re: Who's the greatest?

Craig,

The heading to this thread didn't indicate it was only the greatest GP rider. A full bench racing debate would include Americans who toiled at the other disciplines as well, and not be limited to what for much of it's existence was strictly a European club.

Thus, I throw into this mix the great Cal Rayborn. I don't need to defend this selection, as his work speaks for him. R.I.P.

Thanks,

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Old 01-15-2017, 07:37 AM
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Re: Who's the greatest?

GOAT? Outside Moto GP, That list is huge. Just try to make a list of the disciplines... Sammy Miller in trials? Penhall in speedway? When you get to flat track, Chris Carr, Scotty? American roadracing Aldana, Fisher, Lawson...? TT, could that be Bugsy Mann? Daytonna probably deserves a list by itself, does memory fail me, but was it Nixon who pounded the Triumph gas tank down to a legal volume as he crossed the finish line? ISDT? Enduro? and then Moto X, the racing venue that has sucked in more young folks than all the others combined? Roger D? I submit that they are all great. but there's always that very small percentile that performs at a level sublime. I thank them all for my memories and ambitions. I thank every racer in every disciple for inspiring me and motivating me. The ones who always had the time for a squid who really wasn't going anywhere. My childhood heroes didn't play with a stick or ball, they smelled like castor oil two stroke smoke, and racing gas. Thanks to all of them, living and passed. Thanks
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Old 01-16-2017, 01:17 AM
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Re: Who's the greatest?

Mike the bike and The Doctor.
Hailwood because of his phenomenal riding ability on a wide range of engine categories and Vale such great showmanship and for seven titles in nine years,
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Old 01-16-2017, 10:24 PM
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Re: Who's the greatest?

Stoner is the best I`ve seen because he had the best bike and backing while on a Honda but when with Ducati the bike was just OK but he still managed to ride it not only well but win the championship.
How did the Dr go when at Ducati?

When I was a young bloke starting out with road bikes Barry Sheen was my hero at the time.
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Old 01-17-2017, 05:55 AM
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Re: Who's the greatest?

Graeme Crosby until that arsehole Randy Mamola backstabbed him
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Old 01-17-2017, 06:30 AM
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Re: Who's the greatest?

Garry McCoy was a favourite.

His style was, weight the outside peg for traction...inside too spin up, cool the tyre...& get rid of those dangly bits..
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Old 01-17-2017, 06:48 AM
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Re: Who's the greatest?

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulmogs
Garry McCoy was a favourite.

His style was, weight the outside peg for traction...inside too spin up, cool the tyre...& get rid of those dangly bits..

"The Slide King", I have his Arai replica helmet. Retired it after a minor crash.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YwSIX0lNSVo
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Old 01-18-2017, 07:13 PM
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Re: Who's the greatest?

Here's a real curve ball, but I honestly thought John Kockinski was one of the best riders on the grid in his day, he was a genius on the bike, but a bit odd off it. I believe he could have been one of the all time greats, but the way he came across in the media killed him. I admire him for being himself regardless.
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Old 01-19-2017, 01:49 AM
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Re: Who's the greatest?

How many races and titles did Angel Nieto get? He'd be up there.
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