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"KRS/GT" Technical Q&A K1200RS/GT Technical Questions/Answers

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  #1  
Old 01-03-2018, 04:05 PM
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Frustrated fuel issue??

98' KRS with 58k. This past season, I got some bad fuel at a local station.( I say this as I found out that 8 gal. After I filled up, the tank at the station was empty!) bike ran fine for roughly 80-85 miles. Then, cruising at 65mph. it was like I shut the bike off? WTF?!? Checked fuses, listened to fuel pump kick in, bike would crank and pop and fart no start! Let the bike sit for 1.5 hrs. Had some lunch, then tried to start again. It would run, barely, missing,backfiring, then it just cleared out and ran,idled just fine!! Hmmm? Rode it back towards home, ran like nothing ever happened? Then, 1/2 mile from home, cut out again. Same scenario. Bike sat at friends overnight. Went back in the morning, fired right up, ride it home just fine? Looked in my maintence records saw the fuel filter had 10,780 miles on it. Ordered a new Mahle filter, drained and cleaned tank. Checked hoses,clamps,pick up screen cleaned and reassembled. Fresh 93 gas, fired right up! Fixed!! Now, 1100 miles and numerous tank fills later, it was a repeat performance!! Cut right out. Let it sit overnight, fired right up. So I was thinking maybe temperature related?? Fired it up, idle is fine, no hesitation, go for a short romp. Temp. gauge never got past half way and quit again! Winter is here in the Northwoods, so simple as fuel filter AGAIN? Or am I chasing a electrical gremlins?? Any ??? I'm all ears!! ✌🏼
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  #2  
Old 01-03-2018, 04:44 PM
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Re: Frustrated fuel issue??

Not sure if it would cause your issue, yet,...does the machine still have the charcoal cannister?
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Old 01-03-2018, 06:45 PM
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Re: Frustrated fuel issue??

Quote:
Originally Posted by SKYGZR
Not sure if it would cause your issue, yet,...does the machine still have the charcoal cannister?
No, I removed that roughly 6yrs. Prior.
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Old 01-03-2018, 06:53 PM
bruincounselor bruincounselor is online now
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Re: Frustrated fuel issue??

Intermittent issues suck.

I'd try a filter (cheap to try - royal PITA to do). If the pump is running I would suspect fuel issue. I trust you've checked for spark when it dies?
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Old 01-03-2018, 07:02 PM
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Re: Frustrated fuel issue??

I should say that, if I continue to mope around, whining about wrenching, fussing over possible cost of repairs for such a old bike, my Mrs. may let me look at something newer!!
Truth is, I still like this bike more than any other bike I've had!! But I still can look!!
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Old 01-03-2018, 07:21 PM
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Re: Frustrated fuel issue??

My thinking has been, the fuel filter sucks in water/contaminated fuel,starves the system.
Then when the bike sits for at least 4+hrs. It lets the filter "release" the vacuum of crap(?)
That has restricted fuel flow. Is it possible that the "paper filter media" gets pulpy and swells??
Thanks for the input!
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Old 01-04-2018, 03:06 AM
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Re: Frustrated fuel issue??

One dose of water permanently destroys a paper filter. I thought you mentioned in the first post you changed the filter. But anyway, yes water and paper filters, there done. Also the fuel injectors have fine mesh wire filters built into them, takes Mr. Injector and his shop to bring them back to new.
http://www.mrinjector.us/
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Old 01-04-2018, 10:37 AM
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Re: Frustrated fuel issue??

Filter problem seems unlikely if it comes and goes. If it's an injector, I'm not sure it would cause complete shutdown. Try unplugging the elecrtical connector from one while it's running fine to see if the symptoms appear similar. The following caught my attention:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clambucket
Then when the bike sits for at least 4+hrs. It lets the filter "release" the vacuum of crap(?) That has restricted fuel flow.
Not related to the filter, but "release the vacuum" triggered a thought. When you experienced the problem did you ever pop the fuel filler cap? I'm wondering if you've got a problem with the tank venting. If so, you would hear a vacuum release when opening the filler and the bike should run fine after.

The other thought I had was a failing Hall effect timing sensor. That might be temperature dependent. I think you can test that by turning the engine over with the rear wheel and listening for the fuel pump kick in as the window passes the sensor. Procedure should be in the archives.

Beyond that, you could check fuel pressures using some spare quick connects and a T connector for a gauge. Maybe the pressure regulator is flakey?
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Old 01-04-2018, 10:57 AM
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Re: Frustrated fuel issue??

Fuel injectors.Easy to pull and send for a cleaning.That's FI 101.And rather cheap at $25.00 ea.?

And clean the fuel lines when you have it apart.Went through that in 2016 and erred not cleaning the lines.Contaminated my freshly cleaned injectors.

The fine mesh baskets in the injectors are only filtering at 40 microns.Filter is good down to 15 microns.Takes less that 10 Microns particles to interfere with injectors spray pattern and flow.

98,never removed the injectors? I think it is time,don't wait until the injectors O-rings dry out and leak fuel under pressure.
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Old 01-04-2018, 01:41 PM
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Re: Frustrated fuel issue??

same happened to me with my old boxer, flushed crap out of the system including the rail & regulator, 5 gallons of clean fuel until the little black particles/trash were gone, replaced the filter, eventually had to send the injectors off.
BTW, I just received my KGT (80k) injectors from RCEngeeringInc. 2 weeping, none at max flow, now all good for $117!
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Old 01-05-2018, 10:54 PM
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Re: Frustrated fuel issue??

Getting to the injectors on the K12RS is a pain. You need to remove the left side fairing, left fan and shroud and the complete fuel rail just to get one or all injectors out. Then you can't test one. Well, yes, you can - on a boxer. I pulled one injector on my R11RT, plugged in each K injector, one at a time, cranked and sprayed into a clear water bottle to check spray. My K injectors were AOK.

The pressure regulator valve bypasses 90%+ of the fuel at idle returning it to the tank. The lines from the PRV to the injectors will clear air very quickly, so I doubt you are air-locked. You could check flow at both quick disconnects if you have a spare set, or use the hose clamps.

The R bikes of this era all had the HES syndrome where the wires inside the sheath (not visible without opening the sheath) between the HES and the wiring connector will lose their insulation from heat and short out. Most of the time it will NOT restart. Like hitting the kill switch. Dead. I've heard of some with an intermittent problem. The problem was BMW used cheap wire. The sensors themselves are bulletproof. Could this bad wire be an issue with K bikes, too??

I hope its not an intermittent ground on a relay somewhere!!

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/SHxxT-m0sOmYcwzEINjbG9TeQm_wIk0FLIVOybdgtzhrRRHyJ3LbUZC7lUJua6mdJD 9QktvMYBfhqtyf7wZegwBHZbAOKgYsmzaoy36VczgBjAvzU0RVxwHcl24Ku6 LsXX7yVL-kzBYC5GYOoasVPLOUen32LddlYKHPSxxStG5uKENw8g7b2Hkwy2e-EwKh_zfxv4lVR8y5bKigpxUn3RC4oqudU7DikwE1qmV-0ydaZL1WZR_5Dc36mY7qzdCQ0UPtJ_-5Euq0zs7Ld83vCgPJndC06EbK5w0zHqoLjzKBoMGv4q9qzQhme6rZbkXu_b3 8chUKNc-9rAGcPMf-6N2vdqqxnADtRW2rZMARW0Bc2J3dtqB3IdyfTU_N8l9iyjj0STEMzJ_I7Ljj PVp7emlu1J_SaTWDmZXHOkd0AAq2J6VZj87v3_4tti9Bt2JalA1hFK17X2kO cbUO-qDsQKNpAegcvpm80gfgQyKoZ-JemurYD4JQGv2u-Dl03l4to2hRCNOswSnYRrxk8mnvIvjpVaciZIFJUifQMXF7XdyC8YzQwlmpQ Zkqj6norLdhVCSYrjbeEsWwCKxWiQh3jeQ-tA1KqP3IPsRCrYM0fu2nxiJsqQzZ_3vXkANd4A9XxKVR624Mh1fvEdS1uQIH h63yJ_EtObV2=w850-h637-no?.jpg
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Old 01-06-2018, 02:19 PM
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Re: Frustrated fuel issue??

Well, with the current weather at -14°!! I have plenty of time to take it all apart!
2yrs. ago, I replaced the Distribution Rail/line ,did a valve adjustment, also replaced the dreaded "O"ring. All thanks to the good folks on this site!! The information that is shared on this site is priceless! So, I'll pull her Tupperware, and start with draining tank and giving it a good going over. Pulling the injectors is a well overdo sounds like! Thanks for all the replies Guys!!
Stay tuned.... (at least 3months away from riding)��
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Old 01-06-2018, 02:50 PM
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Re: Frustrated fuel issue??

Changed my fuel filter at ~24000 miles on my RT. I though the old one would be clean, but when I back flushed the old filter, I was amazed at the amount of MUD that came out. I don't know where it all came from, but i was sure surprised.
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Old 01-09-2018, 01:35 AM
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Re: Frustrated fuel issue??

If the OP has cleaned/flushed the tank and replaced the filter, then as far as fuel issues go the injectors and fuel pressure regulator would be the next items to check in order to eliminate fuel supply as the issue. And dirty injectors would bring a miss, not a complete shutdown.

The symptoms on this issue sound suspiciously close to those of water temp sensor failure, the sensor at top front of the engine that us a stinker to get at. Typically, when that goes bad the bike will start and run until warm then start blubbering/spitting/misfire and die. Allowed to sit and cool, the engine will again start and the cycle repeats at random intervals.

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Old 01-17-2018, 01:21 PM
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Re: Frustrated fuel issue??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clambucket
Well, with the current weather at -14°!! I have plenty of time to take it all apart!
2yrs. ago, I replaced the Distribution Rail/line ,did a valve adjustment, also replaced the dreaded "O"ring. All thanks to the good folks on this site!! The information that is shared on this site is priceless! So, I'll pull her Tupperware, and start with draining tank and giving it a good going over. Pulling the injectors is a well overdo sounds like! Thanks for all the replies Guys!!
Stay tuned.... (at least 3months away from riding)��

Before you take it apart you need to do a fuel pressure test.Pressure AND pressure bleed down.May give you clues as to what is wrong including the potentially stuck fuel injectors/bad regulator/leaky lines or weakening fuel pump.

Some data first before you take it apart.Darn FPR....now over $100.00 from BMW. Mine was a little weak by a few lbs.Glad I had someone's BMW here that I could temporarily steal the FPR.But an R1200GS and talk about hard to steal....!

So hard that I didn't bother removing his used one from the K and bought him a new one.And Ouf got it back on the R in 10 minutes.Phew....!

BTW on the K1200RS it is a lot easier to remove the FPR with some residual pressure in the system.May spill a little gas but sure beats trying to fight it out with pliers.QDs come in handy.....pressurise the system,disconnect the return line leaving about 25-30 psi in the system.Remove FPR clip and twist out.Will come right off with a rag under to catch the spills.Toss smelly rag outside after....!
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Old 02-18-2018, 11:45 AM
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Re: Frustrated fuel issue??

Happy 2018 to all!! Quick question, has anybody had fuel lines separate internally? Wondering if this could be a possibility? I've pulled the pump assembly out, purchased new filter, thinking I should replace every hose in the system since they are 20 yrs old! Going to test HES also. Still winter here(damnit!) I'll keep plugging away! Thanks!
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Old 02-18-2018, 12:19 PM
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Re: Frustrated fuel issue??

Clambucket,

YES. I've had both a hose come off inside the tank and the HES failure.

BOTH will stop the bike cold. I had used the screw type SS mini hose clamps inside the tank. There isn't much of a jag on the tubing, pump, filter, exit/return tubes so it has to be right. Got about 10 miles from the shop. Trailered it back and ordered Otiker clamps. Has been good for a year so far.

The HES quit about 1.5 miles out. Wreckered it back and PM'd GSAddict for a rewire job. VERY pleased with his work, much better job than I could ever do.

If you haven't replaced the rubber hoses in the tank, then you need to do BOTH the HES and hoses and clamps. Brake lines, too.
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Old 02-18-2018, 02:25 PM
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Re: Frustrated fuel issue??

Thanks Lowndes!! Embarrassed to say that I did do the Speigler brake line upgrade 5yrs. ago,
and didn't give a thought to the fuel lines. All the fuel lines in the tank are all secure in there proper places. My concern was if the hoses themselves, started to "delaminate" so to speak,internally. Bare with me on this; A old riding bud who is a trucker, relayed a story of chasing a fueling ghost last fall that stumped him and his service tech. Truck would just cut out when pulling hard, changed out filters, checked pressures, (this on 525hp.Cummins)
He went back out after service, trucks running right as rain! Then, just cut out! Pull over, let it sit, hand prime system,fire up and go, then die again? Come to find out, some Ol'timer, is in their shop and says; had that happen on a Kenworth that would collapse the interior of the fuel line feed. Trucks sits for a bit, vacuum on that line is decreased, start up again. So, I guess anything is possible? On another note, it's crazy what the Stealer wants for those little preformed hoses!! Thanks for your time!!������
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Old 02-18-2018, 06:45 PM
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Re: Frustrated fuel issue??

Clambucket,

I made all of the inside-the-tank hoses from NAPA $6/ft inside and outside rated ethanol fuel injector hose. On the big "U" bend, I used a long coil spring inside the tube to keep it from collapsing/kinking. Works just fine.
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Old 02-20-2018, 10:34 PM
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Re: Frustrated fuel issue??

Do not use SAE 30R9 fuel injection rated hose inside the tank,it will fall apart in a few months.Ask GSAddict? I personally know him btw.

Spec for submersible fuel injected hose is SAE 30R10. One foot of 30r10 is about $25.00. Enough to cut a little piece,2-3" for the filter to pipe and loop the rest between the pump and filter.Nice loop....no need for a spring.So +40Ks so far on my 30r10 hose arrangememt.No problems.
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Old 02-21-2018, 06:28 AM
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Re: Frustrated fuel issue??

Quote:
Originally Posted by pbegin@burton
Do not use SAE 30R9 fuel injection rated hose inside the tank,it will fall apart in a few months.Ask GSAddict? I personally know him btw.

Spec for submersible fuel injected hose is SAE 30R10. One foot of 30r10 is about $25.00. Enough to cut a little piece,2-3" for the filter to pipe and loop the rest between the pump and filter.Nice loop....no need for a spring.So +40Ks so far on my 30r10 hose arrangememt.No problems.

Thanks for that important piece of info!!
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