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"KRS/GT" Technical Q&A K1200RS/GT Technical Questions/Answers

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  #1  
Old 04-21-2012, 04:55 PM
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So confused about my ABS-i Issue(s)

Ok, time to decide on taking out the ABS unit and sending it off for a rebuild or not...I'm not convinced the issue I'm having is with the ABS unit as previously posted...and to R&R without first ruling out all other areas of possibility is very costly and time consuming.

First ride of the year for the RS toay (started right up as she has done since I brought her home in 01) , Took her down for the NY inspection...

Here's the issue(s)

1. No issues with the ABS until I get to the dealer (about 5 miles) and then the ABS lights began blink, the rear brake light stays on and you could hear the ABS motor whine continuously. Turn off the bike...restart and all well and good and I get the inspection.

2. Off on a shakedown run (59 miles) and alls well for the first 30miles...then the ABS lights started to flicker, BUT I still had rear assist braking (this is the first that this has ever happened) for a while.

3. Shut her down and started back up...alls well for a few miles and then the ABS lights start to flicker again and this time, I have NO rear residual breaking. FRONT ALWAYS WORKS WHEN THE REAR QUITS and engages the rear as well as the front.

4. Shut her down and restart and alls well for a few miles and then the ABS lights flicker with NO rear residual breaking this time. After a few stop and restarts, I ride her all the way home with the lights flickering and the rear break light on.


So....should I assume its the ABS unit or if it where bad...it would just remain in a failed state? Why is it so intermittent?

Should I start looking into the rear ABS sensor?

Should I adjust the adjustment off of the foot break?

I must admit, its pretty scary flying along at 80 wondering if your brakes will fail you...I've lost some confidence in my ride and want to get her back...I miss riding the mighty K!
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  #2  
Old 04-21-2012, 05:14 PM
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Re: So confused about my ABS-i Issue(s)

as you have stated, getting the abs unit repaired is very costly to do with a possibility it may be something else.

i would try and eliminate as many things from the equation as possible. if something can be unhooked, or disabled and not cause any faults, i would go that route first, with out a doubt.


usually i have found that if its an electrical component, its either bad or good, can't be both. possibly loose, or bad connection someplace is what i would try and figure out, or atleast eliminate first.



mines an 02, if they are the same, maybe we can do a meet up and switch some parts to see if it makes a difference on yours. might be a big pain in the butt, but if it can save you a few hundred then it would be worth it.
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Old 04-21-2012, 05:21 PM
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Re: So confused about my ABS-i Issue(s)

[quote=Flyboy]
1. No issues with the ABS until I get to the dealer (about 5 miles) and then the ABS lights began blink, the rear brake light stays on and you could hear the ABS motor whine continuously. Turn off the bike...restart and all well and good and I get the inspection./quote]



I just about duplicated that yesterday, unplugging the rear brake switch with the ignition ON and the servos started whining+ brake light came on.

Replugged everything, restart and road test, no ABS lights. Came back home, plugged in the GS911 and what do you know....not surprisingly a rear brake switch fault but "Not present now".

I think your switch is acting up or the connector under the seat has corrosion in it or the wire is broken somewhere.
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Old 04-21-2012, 05:28 PM
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Re: So confused about my ABS-i Issue(s)

You know Paul you could take a page out of the Vincent book, I've read / heard that when asked about the poor quality of the bike's brakes, the designer purportedly said,

"We build them to go, not to stop!"

Having said that, take a look at the wire that goes to the rear disc ABS sensor, when I was redoing the brake lines I found that someone at the factory got a little too enthusiastic with the zip ties, and the covering of the line was cracked - it would only be a matter of time before the line carrying the juice would have been impacted, you may be getting a short there, , looked like this,

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Old 04-21-2012, 05:29 PM
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Re: So confused about my ABS-i Issue(s)

Thanks guys! All good stuff....and yes, Northsquad performed a GS911 on the RS for me last fall..today was the first ride since..

GS911 Version:1002.1 Date:12/3/2011
16772: Internal control module error - front control pressure sensor
The fault is not present now.
17915: Defective Warning lamp
The fault is not present now.
17433: Pressure in rear wheel circuit to low
The fault is not present now.
17181: Pressure in front wheel circuit to low
The fault is not present now.


Integral ABS
BMW Part No.:07664365
Hardware Version No.:12
Manufacturing date(YYYY/mm/dd):2001/04/27
Software Version:2.1.2
Manufacturer:FTE
Part No.:37012051
Serial No.:25211
Host date(YYYY/mm/dd):2000/02/17
Control computer date(YYYY/mm/dd):1999/09/10
Control computer version:V01.63
EPROM version:17
Control computer ROM checksum78
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Old 04-21-2012, 05:35 PM
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Re: So confused about my ABS-i Issue(s)

[quote=pbegin@burton]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyboy


I think your switch is acting up or the connector under the seat has corrosion in it or the wire is broken somewhere.

Got a pix of the connector? I'll take a look....
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Old 04-21-2012, 05:37 PM
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Re: So confused about my ABS-i Issue(s)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CJS350

Having said that, take a look at the wire that goes to the rear disc ABS sensor, when I was redoing the brake lines I found that someone at the factory got a little too enthusiastic with the zip ties, and the covering of the line was cracked - it would only be a matter of time before the line carrying the juice would have been impacted, you may be getting a short there, , looked like this,

My wire looks brand new,,,,,as does the rest of the RS
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  #8  
Old 04-21-2012, 05:42 PM
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Re: So confused about my ABS-i Issue(s)

Lemme add a bit more info for clarification......the rear integral fails when I either hit the rear brake, but not always and at times under heavy acceleration. NEVER when I use the hand break.
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  #9  
Old 04-21-2012, 06:35 PM
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Re: So confused about my ABS-i Issue(s)

Eh! just so we are a little clearer, is that a Canadian bike? 2001 was the Servo I-ABS year for us, the US had to wait until 2002.

Hum, pressure faults, if you go dig into the Google GS911 discussion groups, it seems that someone has fixed that by replacing the MC in question, rear one in that case. Obscure and lots of chaff in them discussions but it is there somewhere.

Also on there, seems very important as to when the switch activates to "preload" the servos, then the MC takes over. That I have tested to a point by holding the switch closed then pushing down on the pedal, servos and brake light still come on. If the "delay" between the twos isn't right could cause faults.

The connector should be under that cross tube between the rails, just in front of the rear fender, just little pin type ones in there, easy to corrode if I judge by others I have found on my bike. Yellow and green wires. I don't trust such small wires not to be broken even if they look good, sewing needles into the connector for contact, holes are too small for the meter leads, then connect the Ohmmeter to that and twist the wire with the switch activated to see if the contact is constant.

Just diagnosed a bad spark plug wire that way....worked fine when the wire was bent in operating position, different story when it was spread out.

Pressure faults again...darn still waiting on the new software version for the GS911, will give us bleed pressure tests, wondering if that could be related to them faults you seem to get.

And the servos that kept on running, they may do that if they are not building up pressure, had that little happening after installing aftermarket lines and I am not the only one. Couple more I know of lost most of their rear brakes after lines installation and that without showing any ABS faults. But I think they lost most of their rear braking action even when using the front lever integration. I have sent both for a proper dealer bleed, not some shade tree mechanic idea of a bleed, letting friend or customer leave the shop without a proper rear pedal action .....still waiting to hear if they got their pedal back.

I am following someone else trying to diagnose very similar problems somewhere else, keep on trying something may just come out of all that.
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Old 04-21-2012, 07:02 PM
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Re: So confused about my ABS-i Issue(s)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pbegin@burton
Eh! just so we are a little clearer, is that a Canadian bike? 2001 was the Servo I-ABS year for us, the US had to wait until 2002.

.

Yes, I purchased the bike in Montreal in 01 and its an 01Facelift....all the 02 goodies except for cruise control....at the time, the Loonie was 60C to the dollar....

Ok, I'll go hunting for the wiring...I'm a half decent wrench, but when it comes to electrical, I'm an idiot
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Old 04-21-2012, 07:06 PM
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Re: So confused about my ABS-i Issue(s)

RFW has been kind enough to respond via PM's, but I would like to repost it here for other to see....THANKS BOB!

Paul,

I just had a look at the wiring diagram in the Clymer manual for your bike, and it shot down some of my comments in my last PM. So, forget my last PM!!

Both your front and your rear (pedal) brake switches are wired directly to the ABS controller. Your rear brake light is also wired directly to the controller. So the rear brake light can only be switched on by a signal from the ABS controller.

So it is clear that in response to either the front or the rear brakes being activated, the pump should start and the controller will also cause the rear brake light to turn on.

Since everything works normally when the front brakes are activated (pump starts, both front and rear brakes are activated, and the rear brake light switches on), the basic system seems to work OK.

Since your problem seems related to the rear braking system, I was just wondering if the problem was that the rear brake pedal switch was intermittent.

It would be interesting if you were able to unplug the rear brake switch, then ride the bike. Of course, you would only be able to use the front brake lever to activate the brakes, but applying the front brakes also activates the rear ones as well, so it wouldn't be unsafe.

If, with the rear brake switch disconnected, your problem does not recur, then the brake switch or its wiring is the cause of the problem.

If the problem STILL occurs, then it looks like your ABS controller is the problem. It could easily be a simple cracked solder joint on the controller's circuit board, for example.

Bob.
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Old 04-21-2012, 07:09 PM
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Re: So confused about my ABS-i Issue(s)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyboy

It would be interesting if you were able to unplug the rear brake switch, then ride the bike.

If, with the rear brake switch disconnected, your problem does not recur, then the brake switch or its wiring is the cause of the problem.

If the problem STILL occurs, then it looks like your ABS controller is the problem. It could easily be a simple cracked solder joint on the controller's circuit board, for example.

Bob.

Excellent suggestion Bob!...Looks like heavy rain tomorrow and then I'm heading out west till the 3rd, so this test will have to wait till the weekend of the 5th.

Where might I disconnect/unplug the rear switch
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Old 04-21-2012, 09:17 PM
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Re: So confused about my ABS-i Issue(s)

Hey Paul, I hate to say this but I remember when we read the fault codes, and you posted the print out here, how can a bad switch cause a low pressure reading in the wheel circuits? My recollection is you change the brake fluid regularly it was very clean, I think the hydraulics are working fine, but that nasty little computer attached to the ABS module is toast. Can the computer alone be replaced, or maybe reflashed? I think that samall compuetr on the module is crashing, you restart (reboot) and all is well with the world until it crashes again. E-mail the printout to Max see what they say.
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Old 04-21-2012, 10:30 PM
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Re: So confused about my ABS-i Issue(s)

Don't know about unplugging that switch. As per my previous post, unplugging it with the ignition ON turns on the servos and brake light.

Just walked out and tried, unplugging it with Ignition Off then turning the ignition On, Servo motors will not activate as they should when applying the front brake.

Maybe jumping it at the connector could bypass that, will try tomorrow.

More faults to clear..I bet I get the Brake light one and the switch also.

With the switch unplugged, system thinks the brake light is burned and does its little compensation thing, using the parking bulb filament....a little delay there until it comes on.
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Old 04-21-2012, 11:24 PM
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Re: So confused about my ABS-i Issue(s)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyboy
Where might I disconnect/unplug the rear switch

Aha! That one, I cannot answer, since I don't get any hints when looking at the Clymer manual, and I don't have access to the actual bike. All I can suggest is to follow the wiring back from the rear switch. The switch has to disconnect somewhere, since it is a replaceable item.

In regards to Northsquad's thoughts about how a defective switch might cause a low pump pressure fault code, my thought at the time was that an intermittently operating switch, might not only cause the intermittent flashing warning light, it might also cause the low pump pressure as well.

Just a wild-assed guess at this point, since it's hard to troubleshoot something at a distance! It's worth a try!
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Old 04-21-2012, 11:32 PM
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Re: So confused about my ABS-i Issue(s)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pbegin@burton
Don't know about unplugging that switch. As per my previous post, unplugging it with the ignition ON turns on the servos and brake light.

Just walked out and tried, unplugging it with Ignition Off then turning the ignition On, Servo motors will not activate as they should when applying the front brake.

Maybe jumping it at the connector could bypass that, will try tomorrow.

Interesting.... and strange!

Clymer shows the brake switches as being Normally Open in their un-activated state. This means that, with a "good" switch that is not being activated, the circuit is electrically the same, whether the switch is unplugged or not.

The plot thickens!
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Old 04-21-2012, 11:48 PM
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Re: So confused about my ABS-i Issue(s)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RFW
Interesting.... and strange!

Clymer shows the brake switches as being Normally Open in their un-activated state. This means that, with a "good" switch that is not being activated, the circuit is electrically the same, whether the switch is unplugged or not.

The plot thickens!

I know...strange! I think they somehow work together, front/rear but within the ABS brain.

Maybe something to do with the linking, linked when using the front only and when you touch the rear, bypasses the linking.

Or maybe do the rolling self-test, get the light to come off and then unplug the switch and see what happens, may act as a normal (lly open) switch then.

Someone somewhere else mentioned that he had more brakes using the front only, his bike seemed to loose braking power if he activated the rear also. That's something I was going to roadtest for other reasons. Maybe tomorrow ....gave ICBC a whack of dough today.
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Old 04-22-2012, 06:19 AM
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Re: So confused about my ABS-i Issue(s)

Thats exactly how mine acted...motors would run but could not build the pressure needed at the speed required to run the brakes and satisfy the electronics. They would also stay on when bike was parked and only would shut down with key. Pulled the motors and found them junk. Pull the unit out and yank the motors and check them, it is a bitch to rip it apart because of tamper proof fasteners but doable. I replaced the fasteners with S/S socket head screws from Home Depot. I bet you have the case of servo motors gone bad. The brushes and commutators will be toast and the housing will be packed full of shit. You can also tap them with a long screwdriver while your motors are running and hear the change in motor speed .That will give a strong indication That the issue is in the motors themselves. This issue also was dangerous because you would never know when the assist was going to kick in. While braking with anticipation of the servos not working you are in the middle of grabbing a handful and suddenly out of the blue the motors would work well enough to activate the servo assist...THAT IS SCARY SHIT! If it were the case of them knowingly not working at all would be far better but it isn't the case.
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Old 04-22-2012, 06:38 AM
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Re: So confused about my ABS-i Issue(s)

Quote:
Pulled the motors and found them junk

It beats me why we have to put up with such rubbish, particularly on a safety sensitive braking system part.

I was watching our London Marathon on TV this morning and all the escort and chase bikes were Beemers. They let everybody know, because there was a HUGE BMW roundel on the screen covering pretty much all of it.
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Old 04-22-2012, 07:28 AM
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Re: So confused about my ABS-i Issue(s)

Quote:
Originally Posted by voxmagna
It beats me why we have to put up with such rubbish, particularly on a safety sensitive braking system part.

I was watching our London Marathon on TV this morning and all the escort and chase bikes were Beemers. They let everybody know, because there was a HUGE BMW roundel on the screen covering pretty much all of it.
people really need to file a report on this subject to the NHTSA it only takes a min. to do and may help in recouping cost for this WELL known issue. With the ammount of reports just in this forum can you imagine how many are really out there? REPORT PEOPLE! save a life and save my wallet!
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Old 04-22-2012, 07:28 AM
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Re: So confused about my ABS-i Issue(s)

Quote:
Originally Posted by voxmagna
It beats me why we have to put up with such rubbish, particularly on a safety sensitive braking system part.

I was watching our London Marathon on TV this morning and all the escort and chase bikes were Beemers. They let everybody know, because there was a HUGE BMW roundel on the screen covering pretty much all of it.
people really need to file a report on this subject to the NHTSA it only takes a min. to do and may help in recouping cost for this WELL known issue. With the ammount of reports just in this forum can you imagine how many are really out there? REPORT PEOPLE! save a life and save my wallet! I can not for sure say but I believe it is ten years that any safety recalls have to be covered. and even if you have already spent the money for the repair you are entitled to get your money back if it is found by NHTSA to be a recall item. so even if you have spent the doe REPORT IT! https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/ You can report it right on line.
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Old 04-22-2012, 08:56 AM
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Re: So confused about my ABS-i Issue(s)

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Originally Posted by Flyboy
Lemme add a bit more info for clarification......the rear integral fails when I either hit the rear brake, but not always and at times under heavy acceleration. NEVER when I use the hand break.



First, let me state that I have read the whole thread, including the questions about testing or un-plugging the rear brake switch to eliminate this as the problem.

Based on the statement above from FLYBOY, his rear brake switch cannot be "jumped" and removed from the circuit, since it will cause another type or error when he rides and uses the rear brake pedal. Let me explain...

FACTS:
1) On the Integral-ABS (IABS) the rear brake switch has continuity when at rest and no-continuity when the pedal is pressed (same for the front).

2) During the IABS self-diagnostic (after ignition ON), the system checks for continuity on both brake switches (you cannot press the brakes during that short 3-5 seconds).

3) Un-plugging the rear brake switch, will cause the self-diagnostic to fail and you will have a FAST flashing ABS warning red light (meaning no servo assist).

4) Jumping the MALE side of the rear brake switch connector (to create continuity) will solve the problem at item 3 above, but will cause another problem later when you ride (see item 5).

5) While you ride, the IABS-modulator checks for the following condition: the brake pedal (or front brake lever) is pressed to build enough pressure to activate a valve in the modulator. If this condition is met without the "corresponding" brake switch being activated FIRST (no continuity), the system assumes that the switch is defective and will throw an error (General Warning Light - Triangle). In simple terms, the brake switch should be adjusted to 1st start the modulator whining, and a bit after this (more pedal pressure) the valve should be activated inside the modulator. You can test the above condition in your garage at rest by holding the switch while pressing the brake pedal.

See 3 attached pictures for the rear brake switch.

Based on the information that FLYBOY has given us and the above facts, I would say there are only 3 possible causes at this point:
1) His rear brake switch is intermittent and causes the situation described at item 5 above. Only a new (or good used) brake switch substitution would tell us if this is the case.

2) The rear-ABS-sensor is intermitent or the GAP is just outside of tolerances allowed - this could cause an intermittent fault. BUT, in general if this was the cause, the speedometer would jump and the cruise-control would dis-engage while riding when the rear ABS-sensor is at fault.

3) His ABS-Modulator is defective - this is the worst case scenario - I hope not....

(just edited my text afer posting to add the rear-ABS-sensor as a possible cause)
Attached Images
File Type: jpg K1200RS_Rear_Brake_Switch_connector_1.JPG (159.4 KB, 117 views)
File Type: jpg K1200RS_Rear_Brake_Switch_connector_2.JPG (177.5 KB, 107 views)
File Type: jpg K1200RS_Rear_Brake_Switch_connector_3.JPG (170.1 KB, 103 views)
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  #23  
Old 04-22-2012, 11:14 AM
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Re: So confused about my ABS-i Issue(s)

Thanks Sailor! ....now I can clear them faults and go ride. But I did look at the BMW wiring diagrams and they also show that switch as "Open", (S9052, X9052) Not what I found when I tested it a few days ago and again this morning. Closed at rest. Maybe they are showing it as "not installed" without the spring pushing it closed, that would make sense.

Had to confirm some earlier suspicions about them.

Electrical gremlins, there is after all a BMW bulletin on wiring, suggest a once a year removal/cleaning of all the electrical connectors. Applies to all bikes and I sure found a few greenish connectors there and there. Apparently my "new" car is prone to that, corroding connectors causing ABS faults.

Anyone wants to break into one of them modulators and check it out, we'd like pics. Here are the sockets I think, apparently used in jails.

http://www.amazon.com/Anytime-5-POIN.../dp/B0026WMIV4
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Old 04-22-2012, 12:03 PM
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Re: So confused about my ABS-i Issue(s)

Once, thanks for all the replies....I'll dig into the two possibilities when I return back to the bike and report my findings.

I will also file a report as BAK04GT suggests.
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Old 04-22-2012, 12:10 PM
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Re: So confused about my ABS-i Issue(s)

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Originally Posted by BAK04GT
REPORT IT! https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/ You can report it right on line.

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Old 04-22-2012, 02:10 PM
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Re: So confused about my ABS-i Issue(s)

Interesting....or not. No fault codes introduced yesterday plugging or unplugging that switch with Ignition either On or Off, I really tought I would put faults in there.

A couple days ago I cleared the switch fault, that one must have been introduced when I tested the MC/switch functions as per Sailor's #5, holding the switch closed with a screwdriver. Still not that important as it showed later as "not present now" but darn wished I had the BMW codes, some of them according to their paperwork go "in conjunction with xxxxx fault", mostly related to voltage/switch faults.

Anyway, it seems to me that only one of the motors runs when the rear is activated and then both come on when using the front brakes. Sound is different....I tried to work that out with the stethoscope a few days ago but no luck. But yes...tried again using the rear pedal just enough to click the switch then holding it there,then click the front brakes, really looks like one motor with the rear and two running when you activate the front.
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Old 04-22-2012, 07:05 PM
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Re: So confused about my ABS-i Issue(s) "me too"

I had the same problem Friday on a ride with the Westchester Bemmers. My ABS light started blinking and the warning light to the right of the ABS light came on. We stopped and took a short break and the warning lights were off then came back on after about 15 minutes, maybe less. Had lunch and rode back home and lights came back on. Kept checking the brakes to make sure I had them and front brakes worked great and back brakes were mushy. A bit nervous riding with warning lights on and checking the brakes occasionally on the way home. Yep, scarey riding 70-90 down the Taconic Pkwy. with the lights warning lights on, but checking them out often to make sure they were still there. I will know more when I take it to the shop to find out the problem. I will let you know what the problem is.
I will be printing out most of the posts here to help with the diagnois. Thats why I like being a member and to make donations to this site, so I can learn from the pros and vets, your advice and opinions are of great value. Wish I could buy a beer for all.
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Old 04-22-2012, 07:43 PM
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Re: So confused about my ABS-i Issue(s)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pbegin@burton
Thanks Sailor! ....now I can clear them faults and go ride. But I did look at the BMW wiring diagrams and they also show that switch as "Open", (S9052, X9052) Not what I found when I tested it a few days ago and again this morning. Closed at rest. Maybe they are showing it as "not installed" without the spring pushing it closed, that would make sense.

Had to confirm some earlier suspicions about them.

Electrical gremlins, there is after all a BMW bulletin on wiring, suggest a once a year removal/cleaning of all the electrical connectors. Applies to all bikes and I sure found a few greenish connectors there and there. Apparently my "new" car is prone to that, corroding connectors causing ABS faults.

Anyone wants to break into one of them modulators and check it out, we'd like pics. Here are the sockets I think, apparently used in jails.

http://www.amazon.com/Anytime-5-POIN.../dp/B0026WMIV4
Those torx looking heads are actually 6lobe torx plus which is a 6 point star...they can be had but everywhere I have looked they have to be special order. Dremel worked fine on them. The others I think were triangle bit. Dremel worked fine on those also.
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Old 04-22-2012, 09:11 PM
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Re: So confused about my ABS-i Issue(s)

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Originally Posted by BAK04GT
Those torx looking heads are actually 6lobe torx plus which is a 6 point star...they can be had but everywhere I have looked they have to be special order. Dremel worked fine on them. The others I think were triangle bit. Dremel worked fine on those also.

Motors different??? Top ones are 5 points for sure.

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Old 04-23-2012, 03:15 AM
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Re: So confused about my ABS-i Issue(s)

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Originally Posted by pbegin@burton
Motors different??? Top ones are 5 points for sure.

Could be just the use of different fasteners from one year to another...but that will be easier to remove for sure. Are all the assembly screws the same? meaning base and cover.
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Old 04-23-2012, 09:58 AM
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Re: So confused about my ABS-i Issue(s)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BAK04GT
Could be just the use of different fasteners from one year to another...but that will be easier to remove for sure. Are all the assembly screws the same? meaning base and cover.

Can't tell....will have to go stick the borescope in there. But yes there are different modulators, hints on that in the service bulletins.....improved for reliability.

There is also the very rare ones, late 2004 I think where the motors shut down when applying the brakes at a standstill when using the rear brakes......for energy (and motor) conservation it seems.

Having said that, I try the best I can not to use the brakes at a standstill to....conserve my motors. That's why I am trying to figure out if only one motor runs with the rear brakes, then two with the front. Seems that way when you only activate them with the switch, but as soon as you activate them with the MC (rear) looks like both kick in. Very hard to say with the stethoscope and also hard on the old ears.....!
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Old 04-23-2012, 10:56 AM
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Re: So confused about my ABS-i Issue(s)

Those motor probably take quite a bit of current. If you connect a digital voltmeter between the battery negative terminal and a loom ground wire, possibly the frame but better to go on say the rear light ground. There are plenty of BMW brown wire ground points to choose!

Set the voltmeter to its most sensitive range. When 1 motor operates, you will get a change in reading (millivolts), if 2 motors are operating and assuming the motors are similar, you should get twice the reading (voltage drop). If the battery is a bit low and the motor is NOT running, you may be able to pick up the small voltage drop changes of the battery across its terminals.

A more accurate method needing eyes but not ears!

A more cute approach is to use a telephone pickup coil or acoustic guitar pickup as a microphone connected to an mp3 recorder. Hold that against a lump of metal with a motor inside it and you should pick up and record the motor commutation if it is running.
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Old 04-23-2012, 11:41 AM
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Re: So confused about my ABS-i Issue(s)

I've also filed a report with the NHTSA. My description of the problem is as follows:

Quote:
When the failure occurred, the two ABS warning lights on the dash panel flashed alternately as they normally do upon engine start-up, but did not stop flashing once the motorcycle was underway as they normally should do, which indicated a problem with the anti-lock brake system. At the BMW dealership where I have my motorcycle serviced, a technician ran a diagnostic check and identified the cause of the problem as a failed ABS modulator. I was quoted $2200 for a replacement ABS modulator and about $2300 in labor for the repair, together totaling the approximate current value of the motorcycle! Via hard application of the brakes I found that I could lock either the front or back wheel, thus confirming that the ABS system was inoperative. Since the onset of the ABS failure I've been riding the motorcycle but I'm mindful that the brakes no longer have theantilock function. Several BMW motorcycle-related online forums report instances of ABS modulator failures occurring on the same model and on different models of BMW motorcycles. Im filing this report because apparently mine is not an isolated problem and because the cost to the owner of repairing an important safety-related system is unreasonable.

If more of us who have had ABS modulator failures on our BMWs take the time to report this problem, it's possible that a recall will result. It only takes a few minutes to file a complaint so, as I see it, it's worth a try.
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Old 04-23-2012, 02:29 PM
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Re: So confused about my ABS-i Issue(s)

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Originally Posted by ducedi
I've also filed a report with the NHTSA. My description of the problem is as follows:


If more of us who have had ABS modulator failures on our BMWs take the time to report this problem, it's possible that a recall will result. It only takes a few minutes to file a complaint so, as I see it, it's worth a try.
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Old 04-23-2012, 02:36 PM
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Re: So confused about my ABS-i Issue(s)

Quote:
Originally Posted by voxmagna
Those motor probably take quite a bit of current. If you connect a digital voltmeter between the battery negative terminal and a loom ground wire, possibly the frame but better to go on say the rear light ground. There are plenty of BMW brown wire ground points to choose!

Set the voltmeter to its most sensitive range. When 1 motor operates, you will get a change in reading (millivolts), if 2 motors are operating and assuming the motors are similar, you should get twice the reading (voltage drop). If the battery is a bit low and the motor is NOT running, you may be able to pick up the small voltage drop changes of the battery across its terminals.

A more accurate method needing eyes but not ears!

A more cute approach is to use a telephone pickup coil or acoustic guitar pickup as a microphone connected to an mp3 recorder. Hold that against a lump of metal with a motor inside it and you should pick up and record the motor commutation if it is running.

Interesting....don't really want to f-up my hearing anymore, may not pass the upcoming hearing test and they may have to retire me. $6,000.00 for hearing aids. Stethoscope sure hurts the old ears.

Off to the shop for a few Voltmeter tests. Need a much better multimeter, that way I could do Amp tests. That I know where to borrow or get tested, I get to look at the old British bikes in the kitchen/living room at the same time.

Mr.Vox...any ideas on testing the wheel sensors? Not for me but someone could use that somewhere else.
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Old 04-23-2012, 03:03 PM
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Re: So confused about my ABS-i Issue(s)

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Originally Posted by Flyboy
Ok, time to decide on taking out the ABS unit and sending it off for a rebuild or not...I'm not convinced the issue I'm having is with the ABS unit as previously posted...and to R&R without first ruling out all other areas of possibility is very costly and time consuming.

First ride of the year for the RS toay (started right up as she has done since I brought her home in 01) , Took her down for the NY inspection...

Here's the issue(s)

1. No issues with the ABS until I get to the dealer (about 5 miles) and then the ABS lights began blink, the rear brake light stays on and you could hear the ABS motor whine continuously. Turn off the bike...restart and all well and good and I get the inspection.

2. Off on a shakedown run (59 miles) and alls well for the first 30miles...then the ABS lights started to flicker, BUT I still had rear assist braking (this is the first that this has ever happened) for a while.

3. Shut her down and started back up...alls well for a few miles and then the ABS lights start to flicker again and this time, I have NO rear residual breaking. FRONT ALWAYS WORKS WHEN THE REAR QUITS and engages the rear as well as the front.

4. Shut her down and restart and alls well for a few miles and then the ABS lights flicker with NO rear residual breaking this time. After a few stop and restarts, I ride her all the way home with the lights flickering and the rear break light on.


So....should I assume its the ABS unit or if it where bad...it would just remain in a failed state? Why is it so intermittent?

Should I start looking into the rear ABS sensor?

Should I adjust the adjustment off of the foot break?

I must admit, its pretty scary flying along at 80 wondering if your brakes will fail you...I've lost some confidence in my ride and want to get her back...I miss riding the mighty K!



got ALL day

a- a low or weak battery will cause issues

a green lite from a ' battery tender ' does NOT mean full voltage

on down the line or that the batt is not down a cel or 2

[ got a green lite on a batt that wont start mine ]

b- check ALL wiring................connections

sometimes wires rub the frame....each other causing problems

c-id opt for bleeding the entire system b4 removal

thereby ensuring that a few hundred maintenance does not rwesult in a few thousand'
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Old 04-23-2012, 04:24 PM
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Re: So confused about my ABS-i Issue(s)

Yes Vox...got it with the Voltmeter. Using the front brakes, both motors run. Rear Brake only one motor but now that I know what I am looking for, easy to tell just listening also.

Motors longevity/energy conservation at a standstill, rear brake only from now on.
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Old 04-23-2012, 05:11 PM
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Re: So confused about my ABS-i Issue(s)

Quote:
A more cute approach is to use a telephone pickup coil or acoustic guitar pickup as a microphone connected to an mp3 recorder. Hold that against a lump of metal with a motor inside it and you should pick up and record the motor commutation if it is running.

You can do that and hold the pickup against the wheel sensor coil and hear the 'tick- tick' as you rotate the wheel. You can put a 'scope on the coil and pick up the impulses to. Of course that doesn't tell you if the wires have corroded or dropped off the sensor!

The wheel sensors are open and not in a metal screened casing, so what comes out can go in. That is more or less how my ABS pump 'excerciser' works for ABSII. I have two identiacal induction coils both being fed the same pulses from a simple generator (100hz). I tape one on the front wheel sensor and one on the rear.

Ignition on and the ABS thinks both wheels are moving at the same speed. Then I hit a brake and remove pulses from the corresponding sensor. The ABS thinks I just locked up the wheel and the ABSII pump operates without me having to do it on gravel. Never thought out a similar procedure for the servo bikes though, as I don't have that complicated system.

Of course, if you don't use those motors, they will get more water in them and will never dry out so you can't win. The only way is to pull a unit apart and solve the design problem which BMW put in. Without seeing one, from the posts it looks like getting better made motors if the oems are poorly made and also stopping road rubbish from getting inside the enclosures, whilst allowing some airflow for cooling. I can't understand how those servo motors getting relatively little use from braking can fail so expensively and quickly. OK they are small and compact, but consider the fuel pump motor running continuously for K's of miles. That is a compact high current/torque motor also.
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Old 04-23-2012, 06:48 PM
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Re: So confused about my ABS-i Issue(s)

Thanks Vox,

Just screened my motors a couple days ago, a little bit of cutting/bending/shaping some perforated Alu, should slow down the debris. Certainly would the water hose. I think that may be the main culprit here. Obviously from an earlier pic, I don't wash too much up there, always been weary of sending water where it shouldn't be around any kind of motors or electricals.

I could think of better material for that, but had to work with what I have, long way from the material suppliers here.

Before, and BTW they are all 5 point star tamper proof Torx on my bike, just stuck the borescope in there.


After:

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Old 11-13-2012, 11:54 PM
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Re: So confused about my ABS-i Issue(s)

Thought I would share the response from a local shop whom I asked to only remove and replace my unit for me......Thanks Craig
---------------------------------------------------------------
Ok after speaking with my lawyer he recommended not performing this repair because of a few issues. 1.we are not an authorized BMW dealer. 2. My tech has not completed the BMW advanced brake coarse. 3. Even under a written waiver we are liable for any and all repairs. 4. The brake ABS is being repaired by a third party.


So if you were ever involved in a crash and it was deemed a brake issue we (DTMoto) are responsable. So it is a liability my lawyer recommends not taking on.
I have done a similar repair on the Honda goldwing, but this was when I was a certified Honda tech and had completed the advanced brake coarse. This was while I was working for a certified Honda dealer. I love a challenge but I am going to have to pass on this.


Thank you for your patience, sorry I cannot perform the repair.
Happy motoring!
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Old 11-14-2012, 12:07 AM
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Re: So confused about my ABS-i Issue(s)

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Originally Posted by Flyboy
Thought I would share the response from a local shop whom I asked to only remove and replace my unit for me......Thanks Craig

Cripes, if I didn't know better I would think that it was my wife's voice emanating from your key board, I have a hat embroidered with, "ITS ALL MY FAULT" - so, WTF, blame me.

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Old 11-27-2012, 07:39 PM
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Re: So confused about my ABS-i Issue(s)

[quote=Flyboy]Thought I would share the response from a local shop whom I asked to only remove and replace my unit for me......Thanks Craig
---------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Flyboy,
Did you fix your ABS problem?
Did you replace it?

I'm interested as I have a problem that your busted ABS unit may help with. Sorry for being a vulture.
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Old 11-03-2014, 05:38 AM
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Re: So confused about my ABS-i Issue(s)

If the ABS dies, can it be disconnected and removed easily without constant blinking lights? Like many of us I have ridden on more bikes without ABS than with and wouldn't hesitate to cut it free if I needed to, rather than have a really costly repair.
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Old 11-03-2014, 06:21 AM
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Re: So confused about my ABS-i Issue(s)

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Originally Posted by clone5
If the ABS dies, can it be disconnected and removed easily without constant blinking lights? Like many of us I have ridden on more bikes without ABS than with and wouldn't hesitate to cut it free if I needed to, rather than have a really costly repair.
why not just leave it in and pull the bulbs, that way if you ever decide to repair it its there and you wont have to re-plumb and screw around, it is a 97 RS?
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Old 11-03-2014, 07:07 PM
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Re: So confused about my ABS-i Issue(s)

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why not just leave it in and pull the bulbs, that way if you ever decide to repair it its there and you wont have to re-plumb and screw around, it is a 97 RS?

Just asking the question
Mine's not broken - touch wood
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Old 11-30-2014, 04:57 PM
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Re: So confused about my ABS-i Issue(s)

So can the ABS be disconnected without other ramifications? I am looking at an 02 RS with "The dealer says the fault codes (17438, 17182) point to a failing ABS modulator" as a disclaimer.
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Old 11-30-2014, 06:29 PM
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Re: So confused about my ABS-i Issue(s)

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Just asking the question
Mine's not broken - touch wood

Unless you are electronically challenged to design and build a module to detect and scale pulses from the ABS wheel sensor, you will not have a working speedo on later bikes which don't have a separate speedo sensor in the rear drive unit. In this situation, the ABS electronic controller is usually kept for the speedo function.

The ABS fluid plumbed through the ABS hydro unit will have additional losses and advocates of ABSectomy say it is better to remove as much of this loss as possible.

I've ridden many bikes without ABS but they were smaller, lighter and slower than the KRS. What's that well known formula applied as you are braking before the shunt, hitting the kerb or wall? Kinetic energy (K) = 1/2MV squared. M is high, therefore reducing V (velocity) before you hit something seems a good idea to me.
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Old 01-20-2015, 02:32 PM
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Re: So confused about my ABS-i Issue(s)

Today's update....

We do have our new samples and are still in the testing phase (samples are looking much better this time around) . Pressure sensors will be wrapped up in about a month and a half. I don't have an exact date, but we are finally making good progress. We will be closing the waiting list in a month or so and begin sending out the forms for the rebuild.

Best regards,

Tyler
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Old 01-20-2015, 02:47 PM
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Re: So confused about my ABS-i Issue(s)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyboy
Today's update....

We do have our new samples and are still in the testing phase (samples are looking much better this time around) . Pressure sensors will be wrapped up in about a month and a half. I don't have an exact date, but we are finally making good progress. We will be closing the waiting list in a month or so and begin sending out the forms for the rebuild.

Best regards,

Tyler

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Old 01-20-2015, 03:10 PM
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Re: So confused about my ABS-i Issue(s)

That is good news for those waiting this out to get their ABS modulators repaired. I've decided to keep my older bike (05KS) non-ABS. It brakes just fine without ABS and the worthless servo assist pumps... IMHO.
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