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View Poll Results: Should currently illegal drugs be made legal?
No, we should continue to prohibit them and fight them by all means 17 26.56%
No, but we should decriminalise them and simply fine people if they are caught using 6 9.38%
Yes, they should all be legal 25 39.06%
Yes, but only soft drugs. Hard drugs should remain illegal 12 18.75%
Huh? What? Wait, I can't see through all this smoke, oh screw this poll and pass the bong 4 6.25%
Voters: 64. You may not vote until 'registered'. Please go here: http://www.i-bmw.com/register.php

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  #1  
Old 11-16-2008, 12:16 PM
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Should Drugs be Legal?

This is a follow on from the post that asked about pot use. I've always been for legalising all drugs - and mind you, I have actually never used any. So there is no direct recreational self-interest in the matter .

Here's my logic for complete legilisation.

The benefits to society would far outweigh the current costs.
  • Take all that money fighting "the war on drugs" (what a stupid name) and invest a fraction of it into rehab for those that end up needing it
  • Eliminate the corruption and violence generated by the obscene, and illegal (thus untaxed), profits which allows the criminals to corrupt entire governments
  • Reducing the corruption and corrupting of these governments (most relevant to the USA is Mexico and other assorted Latin American countries) would potentially allow those countries to prosper in ways they simply cannot as long as criminal organisations with billions of dollars can corrupt government officials, thus reducing the need or reason for their citizens to illegally emigrate
  • Tax the profits of the subsequently legal product and generate revenue for the state - rather than the countless billions in costs for fighting a "war" that cannot be won
Would you have more drug addicts? Potentially. To me, that would be a price worth paying for the immense benefits one would achieve.
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  #2  
Old 11-16-2008, 01:23 PM
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Re: Should Drugs be Legal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HDF
This is a follow on from the post that asked about pot use. I've always been for legalising all drugs - and mind you, I have actually never used any. So there is no direct recreational self-interest in the matter .

Here's my logic for complete legilisation.

The benefits to society would far outweigh the current costs.
  • Take all that money fighting "the war on drugs" (what a stupid name) and invest a fraction of it into rehab for those that end up needing it
  • Eliminate the corruption and violence generated by the obscene, and illegal (thus untaxed), profits which allows the criminals to corrupt entire governments
  • Reducing the corruption and corrupting of these governments (most relevant to the USA is Mexico and other assorted Latin American countries) would potentially allow those countries to prosper in ways they simply cannot as long as criminal organisations with billions of dollars can corrupt government officials, thus reducing the need or reason for their citizens to illegally emigrate
  • Tax the profits of the subsequently legal product and generate revenue for the state - rather than the countless billions in costs for fighting a "war" that cannot be won
Would you have more drug addicts? Potentially. To me, that would be a price worth paying for the immense benefits one would achieve.


Define soft drug.Or define hard drug which ever works.
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  #3  
Old 11-16-2008, 02:16 PM
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Re: Should Drugs be Legal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnod
Define soft drug.Or define hard drug which ever works.

Soft drugs would be pot, mushrooms, peyote and the like.

Hard drugs would be cocaine, crack, heroin, speed.
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  #4  
Old 11-16-2008, 07:30 PM
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Re: Should Drugs be Legal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HDF
Soft drugs would be pot, mushrooms, peyote and the like.

Hard drugs would be cocaine, crack, heroin, speed.

I have a hard time thinking of mushrooms as soft drugs after seeing some of the effects on some people. Although, I guess you could add poisonous toads to this list, they are soft.
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  #5  
Old 11-16-2008, 07:39 PM
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Re: Should Drugs be Legal?

I have never understood the draw of drugs, and am fundamentally against their use, BUT.....

If they are legalized and somehow controlled there would likely be a reduction in the amount of money the drug manufacturers/dealers/cartels, et al make and an across the board reduction in street values. Which would hopefully lead to a reduction in the violence and other nasty shit associated with the drug trade.

Also feel that if they were legalized you would have to somehow register to use, thus making you ineligible for a variety of jobs, govt benefits, medical care/insurance.

IMHO.
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  #6  
Old 11-16-2008, 07:41 PM
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Re: Should Drugs be Legal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cavscout
Also feel that if they were legalized you would have to somehow register to use, thus making you ineligible for a variety of jobs, govt benefits, medical care/insurance.

IMHO.

Interesting. Should the same hold true for nicotine and alcohol?
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  #7  
Old 11-16-2008, 07:43 PM
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Re: Should Drugs be Legal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by justjoe
I have a hard time thinking of mushrooms as soft drugs after seeing some of the effects on some people. Although, I guess you could add poisonous toads to this list, they are soft.
Shit Joe!!! Damn it.. there goes my monitor!!!! Warn me next time.

(no more toad licking for you!!)


Hard drugs, soft drugs... seems to me that the hardness of the drug would depend on the individual... Some people will get addicted to most anything. I mean.. dear old Rush L. as well as many of the other holier-than-thou windbags have shown the ease with which one can turn a seemingly benign substance (prescription drugs) into a harsher form of reality.

Some yes, some no...
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  #8  
Old 11-16-2008, 08:06 PM
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Re: Should Drugs be Legal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muddy1
Shit Joe!!! Damn it.. there goes my monitor!!!! Warn me next time.

(no more toad licking for you!!)


Hard drugs, soft drugs... seems to me that the hardness of the drug would depend on the individual... Some people will get addicted to most anything. I mean.. dear old Rush L. as well as many of the other holier-than-thou windbags have shown the ease with which one can turn a seemingly benign substance (prescription drugs) into a harsher form of reality.

Some yes, some no...

My attorney has advised me that I can neither confirm nor deny any allegations of things that I have licked or will lick!

Agreed on the addiction part and how people are affected by drugs of all sorts (including sex and other forms of power!). I have a friend who is both addicted to bread and allergic to wheat gluten. We know when he has gone off the wagon when he starts foaming at the mouth (from his lungs actually, if it wasn't so dangerous for him it would be kind of cool!).

I cannot understand why it is okay for a "successful" person to drink 5 martini's at a party then drive home yet the same "Judge" can't fire one up in his own residence.
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  #9  
Old 11-16-2008, 09:43 PM
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Re: Should Drugs be Legal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by justjoe
My attorney has advised me that I can neither confirm nor deny any allegations of things that I have licked or will lick!
.
we've heard what you have/will lick, you sick bastage

bet ya cant roll your Rs now
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  #10  
Old 11-16-2008, 10:21 PM
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Re: Should Drugs be Legal?

Being up here is kinda wierd.
Heroin is illegal, plain and simple, why do we have needle exchanges???
Our local needle exchange in Prince George is now handing out crack pipes, WTF .
Vancouver has a fully legal, government funded storefront type location where you can inject Heroin, in a "safe manner"?????
Marijuana, is also illegal, but only in certain quantities.
Our Marijuana Grow Operators face stiffer fines for stealing electric power, than for cultivating illegal drugs.
Our judges are so frickin liberal, our police have to call foreign authorities to do their job.
The example of which I speak is a Gang president from Vancouver (U.N Gang) was travelling to Mexico for a fellow gang member's wedding. The Mexicans were notified of his impending arrival, and was placed on the next flight out, it happened to be landing in Texas, where the Feds were waiting for him. While on trial in Seattle for drug smuggling, his lawyer was notified that his clients money were profits of criminal activity.
He was dropped like a hot potato, and now has a public defender that he is paying $1600 a month for.
I don't think he will draw another breath in Canada.
It drives me nuts that our legal system defends the criminals.
Our Federal Government gives such mixed signals, are Drugs, illegal, or not.
Oh well, at least we have socialized medicine.
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  #11  
Old 11-17-2008, 07:22 AM
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Re: Should Drugs be Legal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by justjoe
I have a hard time thinking of mushrooms as soft drugs after seeing some of the effects on some people. Although, I guess you could add poisonous toads to this list, they are soft.


Toads, Toads! you speciest ,that was just horrid ,and uncalled for, I believe i'm traumatized now.
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  #12  
Old 11-17-2008, 11:01 AM
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Smile Re: Should Drugs be Legal?

Sounds like someone is hooked on licking toads never tried it but I will pass, thank you
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  #13  
Old 11-17-2008, 08:29 PM
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Re: Should Drugs be Legal?

Heck, for some folks drug use should be mandatory.
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  #14  
Old 11-18-2008, 08:15 AM
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Re: Should Drugs be Legal?

someone needs to explain to Joe that licking every toad he sees isnt drug use, its a fetish
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  #15  
Old 11-18-2008, 08:32 AM
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Re: Should Drugs be Legal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karlb
someone needs to explain to Joe that licking every toad he sees isnt drug use, its a fetish

No, no, you don't lick every toad you see. What you do is pick it up and smack it hard on it's back, if it secretes poison, then you lick it. Or so I've read in on the Internet.

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  #16  
Old 11-19-2008, 01:11 AM
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Re: Should Drugs be Legal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HDF
This is a follow on from the post that asked about pot use. I've always been for legalising all drugs - and mind you, I have actually never used any. So there is no direct recreational self-interest in the matter .

Here's my logic for complete legilisation.

The benefits to society would far outweigh the current costs.
  • Take all that money fighting "the war on drugs" (what a stupid name) and invest a fraction of it into rehab for those that end up needing it
  • Eliminate the corruption and violence generated by the obscene, and illegal (thus untaxed), profits which allows the criminals to corrupt entire governments
  • Reducing the corruption and corrupting of these governments (most relevant to the USA is Mexico and other assorted Latin American countries) would potentially allow those countries to prosper in ways they simply cannot as long as criminal organisations with billions of dollars can corrupt government officials, thus reducing the need or reason for their citizens to illegally emigrate
  • Tax the profits of the subsequently legal product and generate revenue for the state - rather than the countless billions in costs for fighting a "war" that cannot be won
Would you have more drug addicts? Potentially. To me, that would be a price worth paying for the immense benefits one would achieve.

This is a great argument. There is very little crime in Amsterdam, and they have no war on drugs. In fact, I felt safer walking through Amsterdam than most American metropolitan cities. Like other legal goods the drugs are taxed, virtually eliminating the criminal element and the exorbitant costs to process / incarcerate offenders.

I recently saw a film called "American Drug War" detailing the "War" on drugs, what the money gets spent on, and where the biggest batches of drugs are coming from. Lots of great interviews of high level people who used to be involved with importing.
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  #17  
Old 11-19-2008, 10:26 AM
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Re: Should Drugs be Legal?

It's interesting, nearly half of the answers (as of this posting) are for keeping them illegal and fighting them by all means, yet not a single argument is given as to why this is good or desirable.

I would like to hear the arguments from the other side. Why is continuing the same approach better than the alternative?
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  #18  
Old 11-19-2008, 10:49 AM
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Lightbulb Re: Should Drugs be Legal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by justjoe
No, no, you don't lick every toad you see. What you do is pick it up and smack it hard on it's back, if it secretes poison, then you lick it. Or so I've read in on the Internet.


Sounds like you have it down to a fine art
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  #19  
Old 04-06-2009, 10:19 AM
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Re: Should Drugs be Legal?

Drug use is no problem in Holland - as far as I know the only country to have shops that cater for the occasion. In the Netherlands youth drug use is less than in our surrounding countries - but less per capita than the USA too.
The fact that it is available everywhere probably takes away much of the appeal - it is nothing special.
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  #20  
Old 04-06-2009, 10:36 AM
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Re: Should Drugs be Legal?

Nice Bufo Toad you've got there Joe. We do have some of the most 'choice' toads here in Florida.

A month ago I would have said no to legalization on the grounds of monitoring/catching use by motorists. Then came this months Car and Driver with a nice article about how the police can tell if you are under the influence of 'other' substances.

The real rub has to be legalize all, or ban all including Alcohol. They all present the same drain/benefits on the economy.

The down sides that I can see would be higher health care costs from treatment of addiction (same as alcohol) as well as higher auto insurance rates for all.

Having spent 6 yrs in the Coast Guard in the so called 'war' on drugs, I have to agree about the amount of money and resources that are being used to little or no effect. When I was in they estimated we were stopping, if I remember correctly, about 10-20%. That was not just the Guard but all branches of law enforcement involved in this 'war'. Kyle might be able to offer more recent statistics.

Continuing to keep drugs illegal is really no different then prohibition was not so long ago. From what I've read on this forum, some of you were even around to see it !!
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  #21  
Old 04-06-2009, 11:17 AM
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Re: Should Drugs be Legal?

A guy called in to talk a radio show here last week and suggested,

"Legalize Marijuana and tax munchies."
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  #22  
Old 04-06-2009, 03:08 PM
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Re: Should Drugs be Legal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cavscout
Also feel that if they were legalized you would have to somehow register to use, thus making you ineligible for a variety of jobs, govt benefits, medical care/insurance.

IMHO.

This would still perputuate the black market defeating the point of legalising to a large degree in the first place, wouldn't it?
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Old 04-06-2009, 03:20 PM
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Re: Should Drugs be Legal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gcurtis
This would still perputuate the black market defeating the point of legalising to a large degree in the first place, wouldn't it?

Not at all.

Where or from whom you buy them has nothing to do with whether or not you use them.

Drug testing results are exactly the same whether you paid $X for your cocaine (sold by illegal drug dealer that requires a police department expense to try and stop him from selling it ilegally - police force which is mostly unsuccessful in its attempt) or you pay 1/10th of $X, including taxes to the state (plus the saving of most of the policing which would be virtually uneeded) for the exact same product.

Flying a commercial airliner drunk, or a car for that matter, is illegal but alcohol is not and there is virtually no black market for it (other than the occassional moonshiner in the woods of Kentucky and surroundings).

I say 1/10th of $X as an example, I have no data on how much the price of drugs would be reduced if they were legal. But I've gotta think it would be significant considering the cost associated with clandestine production, transportation, government bribery, investment in weapons, etc. that all form part of the current supply system and which would mostly become unnecessary if they were legal.
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Old 04-07-2009, 12:01 AM
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Re: Should Drugs be Legal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HDF
Not at all.

Where or from whom you buy them has nothing to do with whether or not you use them.

Drug testing results are exactly the same whether you paid $X for your cocaine (sold by illegal drug dealer that requires a police department expense to try and stop him from selling it ilegally - police force which is mostly unsuccessful in its attempt) or you pay 1/10th of $X, including taxes to the state (plus the saving of most of the policing which would be virtually uneeded) for the exact same product.

Flying a commercial airliner drunk, or a car for that matter, is illegal but alcohol is not and there is virtually no black market for it (other than the occassional moonshiner in the woods of Kentucky and surroundings).

I say 1/10th of $X as an example, I have no data on how much the price of drugs would be reduced if they were legal. But I've gotta think it would be significant considering the cost associated with clandestine production, transportation, government bribery, investment in weapons, etc. that all form part of the current supply system and which would mostly become unnecessary if they were legal.

I think you may have missed the point I was resonding to.
He stated "register to use".
I took it as a requirement to by "legal" drugs.
I personally wouldn't want that.
I could use a drug and may or may not be tested. I could also pick my place and time further reduce that chance. I don't have to register to buy alcohol... I wouldn't want an insurance co or gov't agency having access to a record on me buying "legal" drugs... In that reality I think it would be prudent to imbibe off the record.
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Old 04-07-2009, 04:34 AM
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Re: Should Drugs be Legal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gcurtis
I think you may have missed the point I was resonding to.
He stated "register to use".
I took it as a requirement to by "legal" drugs.
I personally wouldn't want that.
I could use a drug and may or may not be tested. I could also pick my place and time further reduce that chance. I don't have to register to buy alcohol... I wouldn't want an insurance co or gov't agency having access to a record on me buying "legal" drugs... In that reality I think it would be prudent to imbibe off the record.

You're right, I did miss your point.

I would have to agree with you on the registering bit, I wouldn't want it either, anymore than I would want to have to register to drink a beer or shot of whiskey.
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  #26  
Old 09-22-2018, 01:09 AM
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Re: Should Drugs be Legal?

There was no "War on Drugs". It was more like a "Get off my lawn" scolding from someone in a strait jacket. If we had a real war on drugs there would be no cartels and interdiction would be much more final.



I have no sympathy for users or, especially, dealers. I've had many opportunities to use and walked away every time, even in the presence of olympians and the pressure to be part of the "in" crowd (ADHD does have some benefits). The problem with either side is that they make it everyone else's problem then create an industry out of it that needs to be sustained and/or expanded. Whether you legalize or ban drugs you force everyone else to pay for the cost of treatment or enforcement. The only correct way to deal with the problem is to let natural selection take it's course and give non-users a huge tax break. This would create a real incentive for not using. I'd be fine with being tested at intervals for a 30% tax break instead of being forced to pay for the stupidity of drug users.
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