Sloppy Shifter Fix for the S!

[ccii42104]

Ok, first let me say I am new at this posting and picture thing so be patient.

What most of us 2005 to 2008 K1200GT,R, and S owners know is the shifting of the gears seems to be a little sloppy. We deal with the clunking and missed shifts, all the while, wishing we could solve this problem without having to buy 2009 model. Well, recently I was at my favorite BMW shop and was looking at a 2009 GT and S. I was poking and pulling on various parts to see what was different from my 2007 GT. I was most curious about the recent claim by BMW that they had “fixed” the sloppy shifting issue. So, I took a real close look at the shifter and noticed it was far more precise in the movement than my 07. Closer inspection reveals the shifter appears to pivot on a bearing and not the plastic bushings that mine does. As you are most aware, our K1200s have a linkage and not a direct connection to the transmission. Therefore, any play in the linkage will be greatly increased the sloppy shifting.

Well armed with this new knowledge, I pulled my shifter off, pushed out the plastic bushings and measured the bore. 14mm exactly. The bolt measures 7.5mm. I surfed around and found a bearing supplier in So Cal called “VXB Ball Bearings” and found sealed 8x14mm bearings. 10 for $19! I replaced the OEM plastic bushing with a stack of 4 bearings and the mod transformed the shifting into a smooth and precise action. I was so impressed I shared this with my K1200S buddy and he was skeptical until he rode my GT around. We then changed out his K1200S shifter too!

Follow along,

Here are the tools you need:



On the S and GT, remove the single fairing bolt (T2) located behind the shifter to allow the fairing to flex down enough to get the Torx driver on the shifter bolt (T40):



Remove the shifter bolt:



Once free, remove the linkage (10mm):



Wipe the shifter down with a rag and remove the bushings. Mine fell out but my buddy’s S required a small screw driver as a punch to push them out:



Clean out the bore with brake cleaner, MEK, or acetone. I lightly scuffed the bore with emery cloth to aid with loctite adhesion. I used Loctite brand, bearing and stud locker (green), but high strength thread locker (red) will work as well. There are very little side to side forces so this will do.

Here are the bearings I bought from VXB:





Check out their site, oh yeah, super fast delivery too!

http://www.vxb.com/page/bearings/PROD/Kit7239

You will need to take 2 #8 (I think) stainless washers and bore them out with a 5/16” drill bit. They will rest on both sides of the bearings. They have a smaller OD than the OEM washer and act to allow the free rotation of the bearing. Leave the OEM washer on the bolt.




Ok, now place the shifter in a vice, gently, so the bore is horizontal. Take the OEM shifter bolt with OEM washer, add one #8 washer and four bearings then a #8 washer. Now, lightly coat the bore and outer bearings with loctite. Very little. Slide the bearings into the bore as if you were bolting the shifter back on until the inner most bearing is at the edge of the inner bore of the shifter (side that points to the transmission). I put a nut on the bolt and finger tightened it once I had the bearings in the bore to hold the bearing pack together. Now, to speed up the setting process I uniformly heated the shifter bore area with heat gun to 180 degrees in two heat cycles. Loctite sets in one hour and fully cures in 24 hours. Since I was not in a hurry, I left it in the vice over night for my GT and two hours for my Buddy’s S. He was impatient!




This is too far:


Perfect:



After the bearings are set, simply reinstall the shifter. Torque the shifter to the OEM spec of 19nm. Now on the S we needed to have two #8 washers on the bolt between the shifter and the bracket to ensure the shifter did not rub against the bracket. You will need to adjust it for own application. On my GT only needed one.



Total cost plus CA tax and S&H was, $30 for the bearings (10pk). Another $10 for the new tube of loctite. That’s $20 per bike. Not bad.

As I stated before, please feel free to PM me for details if I did not do this well enough. Also, I live in Cen Cal and would be willing to do the mod for you. (Bring beer money!)

Vince

[Kneedragger]

Great idea, and great contribution to the forum... thank you!! I did it the easy and mega-expensive way and bought the HP rearsets... ... but it looks like you've come up with an excellent alternative...

[biff]

good work! always nice to see an improvement. Plastic bushings. How cheap can ya get! I'm surprised that bolt is all thread as well. It should have a shoulder on it where the old bushing and new bearings make contact.

[ccii42104]

Originally Posted by biff

good work! always nice to see an improvement. Plastic bushings. How cheap can ya get! I'm surprised that bolt is all thread as well. It should have a shoulder on it where the old bushing and new bearings make contact.

I agree. I think the 19nm of force holding the 4 bearing centers together negates the thread issue though. Plus it is only rotating 10 degrees or so. If anything happens, the bearing will notch in the races. But since the load is spread over 4 bearing that shouldn't be an issue either. Ultimately, the whole thing can be reversed and placed back to stock if need be.

[jcw]

Kneedragger, I did the same thing and was VERY VERY dissappointed when I looked at my HP rearsets and found they where bushings as well (for some of the mounts). I'm gonna measure them and see if the bearings will fit.

There's also some bearing locking compound specifically made for this type of application where there's a little wear in the bore.

[Kneedragger]

Originally Posted by jcw

Kneedragger, I did the same thing and was VERY VERY dissappointed when I looked at my HP rearsets and found they where bushings as well (for some of the mounts). I'm gonna measure them and see if the bearings will fit.

Agreed... please post your findings...

[locus]

Vince...

thanks and a great contribution to our forum...

[Loggiebone]

Originally Posted by Kneedragger

Great idea, and great contribution to the forum... thank you!! I did it the easy and mega-expensive way and bought the HP rearsets... ... but it looks like you've come up with an excellent alternative...

I was thinking the same thing. But at least my HPs were because of the brake lever design fault and no shifter issue. It'll be interesting to see if the bearings will work in the HPs. Mine isn't sloppy but it is certainly not solid either.

Great post, Vince and well documented!

[Jetpilot5]

I have saved this page. Great work!

[RFW]

Good idea!

What is the actual bearing number? ... the numbers stamped on the bearings?

By the way, only the outer 2 bearings are doing anything. The inner 2 are just acting as spacers.

[panzerkfw]

WOW!
The best modification I have ever heard! Good work.

Do the bearings fit tight in the shifter lever?

[RFW]

Originally Posted by biff

good work! always nice to see an improvement. Plastic bushings. How cheap can ya get! I'm surprised that bolt is all thread as well. It should have a shoulder on it where the old bushing and new bearings make contact.

Not needed for the old bushings. That is what the inner steel cylindrical part is for.

[ccii42104]

Originally Posted by RFW

Good idea!

What is the actual bearing number? ... the numbers stamped on the bearings?

By the way, only the outer 2 bearings are doing anything. The inner 2 are just acting as spacers.

Well, there are no #s on the bearing. The VXB part # is "Kit7239". Here is the link.
http://www.vxb.com/page/bearings/PROD/Kit7239

There are several 8x14mm bearings to choose from. I picked these because they seemed to be the most suited for the neoprene seals that will keep out the elements. They are perm lubed too!

vince

[bwiele]

Great post and information, thanks Vince. I'm going to have a go at this too - I just ordered the bearings. How much beer will it take for you to come to the east coast to do it for me?

[evoluzione]

while bushings may not seem "high tech" the problem with ball bearings is that they are designed to spin, not just rotate 10-20 degrees. ball bearings will take a set pretty quickly and the shifting will become "notchy." back in 2005 when we first started playing with the k1200s, i designed a shifter that used a sealed needle bearing (these are the same bearings typically used in swingarm pivots for the same reason - small angular movement). we never produced it but i did run it for several years and it did improve the shifting.

[jcw]

Good point from the engineer as usual. Thanks Ken.

I checked my Gilles Tooling rearsets for my zx-10r and they use needle bearings.

MSCdirect has some 14mm OD needle bearings. ID is 10mm. You would need a sleeve for the bolt which could be machined fairly easily...

Maybe just a high quality oil impregnated bronze bushing would be the best?

[ccii42104]

Originally Posted by bwiele

Great post and information, thanks Vince. I'm going to have a go at this too - I just ordered the bearings. How much beer will it take for you to come to the east coast to do it for me?

Whew! alot! feel free to PM me if you want to call me for a walk through. I tried to explain it the best i could with words and pics. None the less, the offer is there.

Vince

[Muddy1]

Vince, what a wonderful thread you have created to pass on your knowledge.
I've seen first hand how much help these blow by blow photos can be to riders making
adjustments to their bikes. Thanks for taking the time to pull it all together and post up.
Hopefully, your solution will have a long life.

[ccii42104]

Thanks Muddy1! Currently i have 1200 miles and 3 weeks of use and they are still smooth. I am watching the notch issue. I think since the loads are spread out over four bearings the notch issue should be minimal at best. We will see. Every bike i have owned (over 10, so far) had needle bearings in the swing arms and none ever were notched. I know needle bearings spread the load much better than balls, but i think with four bearings it should be ok. Heck, even if i have to replace them every year, it is worth it to eliminate the sloppy shifting.

[Leiboshi]

Great posting. Thanks. Thus bike will be now hevier and slower

That what Ken told is for sure one reason why german engineers have decided to do design we have. On the otherway we can see also that they have some cost pressure as well. Definately this is cheap solution. But wrong place to use it.

Regards
Jukka

[scrannel]

Ok, Vince, thanks -- have ordered the bearings. Now, how different does the shifting feel? (I'm in Malibu, you may see me with a six pack soon).

[ccii42104]

It feels like a new bike. Seriously. I can't believe i waited two years to do this. You will see. PM me if you wana come north for a day. Garage is ready....i just finished the 18k valve inspection and am goaan wrap the headers this weekend before i button everything up.

[scrannel]

Thanks for the offer -- where are you? Never mind, I'll PM you...

[scrannel]

FYI...

Got these washers to avoid drilling out the stuff from the Do-it Center...

http://www.bikeman.com/BO1261.html?...aign=GoogleBase

[tward]

I took mine apart, cleaned it up and noticed the slop seems to be caused from the difference in diameter of the bolt and the sleeve. The slop is minor, and there is NO end play.

[scrannel]

Ok, test ride. Overall impression this is -- for me, on my bike -- a huge improvement. The entire shifting process feels more "as one". In general, it feels like a modern transmission linkage instead of a transmission and linkage left over from something like the R60/5 days. I get a less severe clunk shifting 1 > 2, and 2 > 3. After that, it's snick-snick-snick. No more clunk. When I really got on it, the snicks turn to whacks (you get the idea?) but the clunk in those gears is gone. But, most importantly, it is far more easy to run through the gears... hard to explain. Definitely worth the effort. Reports I've read of people sticking on the $1000 BMW set, say they have got rid of clunk altogether. I have noticed a bit of slop in the rest of my linkage, so maybe if I just tighten that up a bit...

[allikanbe]

I put the new bearings in the other day. At first, I couldn't shift in any gear but 1, N, 2 so I loosened the 19nm torque. That helped. I could shift easily. I then added another washer and tried the 19nm torque again, but it was still too tight. I loosened it a bit and all was good. The bike still clunks into 1, 2, 3 gear. There is less slop in the shifter when twisting it while not riding. I'll ride the bike a few hours this weekend to see if there is any change to the slop. Mine wasn't all that bad, but any improvement would be good.
It's a 30 min job.

[scrannel]

Don't understand the torque problems you're having. You know you have to use washers on the "inside" (where the lever bolts to the bike) that are small enough in diameter so that they DO NOT contact the shifter but only the bearing. Mine went on perfect, torqued down to spec. If you can't torque it down to spec I think you have dome something wrong. Take a look at the washers I have set a link for (above). That is the washer that should be contacting the attachment point. If you loosened the attaching bolt to less than correct torque you are still going to have "slop." Also, if you have the right size washer and the lever is contacting the attachment point, add a second washer (I had to). In other words, if you are doing it correctly, you should be able to torque it correctly. You can't get the benefit if you don't. Take a look at the washer in this picture:



ALSO... on the bolt head side, you need (in this order) the bolt, then the stock washer and then one of the small washers. If you don't have the small (#8) washer then the big washer that the bolt sits in will also contact the shifter, and it won't work.

[allikanbe]

Thanks. I bought #8 washers, but mine look larger in outside diameter than those in the pic. I'll get some different washers.

[BMWBuddha]

Well, I did the upgrade the other day. The bearings arrived very quickly and I bought the #8 washers at the local hardware store. Progressive drilling of the washer I.D. to get 8mm was a bit of a bitch until I realized I had a drill stand just for this purpose. The washer walls get very thin (14mm minus 8mm) so attempting to hold the washer in a vise etc will cause distortion. Eventually the job was done THEN I saw the post about the correct ID washers...bought some.
OK...initially I had plenty of slop....after 22K miles the shifter stock delron bushings were worn thin. Now...NONE. I followed the directions (THANKS) waiting a day for the Loctite to set before reassembly.
NO problems whatsoever! The shifts are smooth and predicable. Some "clunking" remains especially going into first IF I don't double clutch BUT overall...I am VERY impressed.
I will continue to search for a proper sized needle bearing (8 x 14 x 16) to really do the job right...but for now...this is GREAT!

[brentboshart]

How about a 10x14 needle bearing with a 10mm shoulder bolt?

[BMWBuddha]

I saw those at VXB but with an ID of 10mm a sleeve must be used to use the 8mm bolt. Additionally, with only a width of 12mm, more spaces (4mm) are required at a critical location (ie, the ends) to add up to 16mm. There are some other manufacturers out there and I'll find the right needle bearing without complications.

[BMWBuddha]

Oops...just saw that shoulder bolt you suggested...that might JUST WORK! Hmmmm, I'll order one to "test" and report back in a week or so.

[scrannel]

So, how important in the equation does everyone think the "links" are -- you know the threaded lengths attached to the ball joints? Should those be adjusted dead-tight? Do you think they flex when shifting?

[ccii42104]

Originally Posted by scrannel

FYI...

Got these washers to avoid drilling out the stuff from the Do-it Center...

http://www.bikeman.com/BO1261.html?...aign=GoogleBase

PERFECT! i just bought a dozen!

[ccii42104]

Offer is still good for all of you with a days ride to CenCal. PM me if you want come by and do this....I am up to four bikes including mine so far. It seems everytime i go by the local shop i find another GT owner.....Also, i am finding you need at least two washers on the inside. The one "S" i did only needed one. I believe the 19nm torque is critical. If you are finding it is binding when torqued the problem is most likley due to the washers are not drilled centered and they are binding on the outer race. My next GT i am goin to use the washers Scrannel posted.

Vince

[scrannel]

Vince, thanks again for all the great info. I had to use two washers on the inside of my KR. I think a few people are not getting that those washers are crucial to the free rotation of the shifter, both on the inside and between the bearings and the stock, outside washer. What's your opinion on the adjustable rod -- how tight should that be? And, do you think it's a source of flex during shifting? By the way, as those washers came from a bicycle shop, I suppos it's possible to pick up something similar at a v. good bike dealer.

[scrannel]

Originally Posted by evoluzione

while bushings may not seem "high tech" the problem with ball bearings is that they are designed to spin, not just rotate 10-20 degrees. ball bearings will take a set pretty quickly and the shifting will become "notchy." back in 2005 when we first started playing with the k1200s, i designed a shifter that used a sealed needle bearing (these are the same bearings typically used in swingarm pivots for the same reason - small angular movement). we never produced it but i did run it for several years and it did improve the shifting.

Apparently BMW K1300 design change is to use two ball bearing "races" in a similar sertup to Vince's:

[Roadcrave]

I love this site, 30 dollar fix, thats great research thanks for sharing...matthew

[MikeN]

Just read this thread - the pics don't display. I get red "X" s instead. ccii42104, can you repost the pics, or someone tell me what I am doing wrong?

[scrannel]

Pics show for me. Have you set your browser to not show pics? If you are using Firefox, try Internet Explorer.

[biff]

Originally Posted by RFW

Not needed for the old bushings. That is what the inner steel cylindrical part is for.

It's a piss poor engineering practice never the less.

[ccii42104]

Originally Posted by scrannel

Vince, thanks again for all the great info. I had to use two washers on the inside of my KR. I think a few people are not getting that those washers are crucial to the free rotation of the shifter, both on the inside and between the bearings and the stock, outside washer. What's your opinion on the adjustable rod -- how tight should that be? And, do you think it's a source of flex during shifting? By the way, as those washers came from a bicycle shop, I suppos it's possible to pick up something similar at a v. good bike dealer.

RE the rod play. My 07 GT has 18k hard miles on it. Suprisingly i have very little play in the ball sockets on the rod. My buddies 05 "S" has 24k miles and it has a very slight amount of movement in the ball sockets. I am just gonna watch it for now.

[biff]

I'm surprised there would be any play in the conical joints at such low mileage.

[scrannel]

Originally Posted by biff

I'm surprised there would be any play in the conical joints at such low mileage.

I have a bit of play as well. Going to scout around for a rod end that might fit. Anyone know what the thread size on the shifting (selector) rod end is? (Max BMW lists the nut as M6-8-ZN FE SW... not sure what all that means).

Another question: does anyone think the shifting rod is too flexible? In other words, is it possible that, as you upshift (in the usual, spirited way) that the rod might -- for an infinitesimal piece of time -- bend. Then, releases this "preload" at the top of the shifting arc?

[ccii42104]

I don't think the rod itself flex enough for us to actually notice it. You would really have to put quite a bit of force on it. Like stand on it. I figure maybe 1-5 foot pounds force either way.

[brentboshart]

I went out for a ride today after finishing this modification on my bike. I was expecting a better feel but the same clunk when shifting from 1-2 and 2-3. What I found was a better feel and significantly reduced clunk from 1-2 and 2-3. Quite surprised actually. Very worthwhile modification.

[MikeN]

In the spirit of overengineering, I am searching for SS or ceramic needle bearings for this mod. I figure that steel will rust pretty fast in that location, exposed as it is to all that road spray.

I found SS shoulder bolts at McMaster-Carr that could work with a little rethreading (the correct length/diameter shoulder only comes in M10 thread). However, I have not found any SS needle bearings. Lots of regular ball bearings in SS, though.

I'll let yall know how this turns out.

BTW, I am going to stop by Bob's BMW this Saturday and get the part # for the K1300S needle bearings - maybe that will be the easiest option.

Mike

[brentboshart]

Originally Posted by MikeN

BTW, I am going to stop by Bob's BMW this Saturday and get the part # for the K1300S needle bearings - maybe that will be the easiest option.

The K1300S uses two ball bearings. See here

[MikeN]

Originally Posted by brentboshart

The K1300S uses two ball bearings. See here

Thanks! Maybe I don't need to be so anal about using needle bearings. There sure are plenty of SS ball bearing races out there!