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"K13S/R" Technical Q&A K1200S/R Technical Questions/Answers

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  #1  
Old 08-12-2012, 06:08 PM
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Idler washer removal, did it cure the noise, Did you adjust the oil pump chain?

OK so if you have removed the bigger diameter washer and fitted a smaller one did it cure the noise.
Also has your oil pump chain been inspected for proper tension and or have you adjusted it?
I fitted a smaller washer and bell ring/grind has disappeared.

BUT I also adjusted my oil pump chain so it has about 8mm of front to back play on the front run, it was running into the block or rather it could be pushed into the block along its front run prior to adjustment
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  #2  
Old 02-28-2013, 12:36 PM
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Re: Idler washer removal, did it cure the noise, Did you adjust the oil pump chain?

Do you know how to adjust the oil pump chain? I just bought my bike and would like to adjust mine. Any help would be a big help!
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  #3  
Old 02-28-2013, 01:34 PM
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Re: Idler washer removal, did it cure the noise, Did you adjust the oil pump chain?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pegscrapr
Do you know how to adjust the oil pump chain? I just bought my bike and would like to adjust mine. Any help would be a big help!

The detailed answer is in the BMW Service DVD, and it is NOT simple!

You must remove the clutch cover (remembering that you MUST replace the one-time-use aluminum screws and EXACTLY follow the torquing instructions in the DVD, when reassembling). Then you must remove the clutch (special tools are needed to re-install it). Chain checking and adjustment also requires a special tool.

But more to the point, why on earth do you think you need to adjust the oil pump chain? There is no history of this chain being dangerously loose. There are people who have noticed it is relatively slack, and figured it needs tightening, but that is mostly just a knee-jerk reaction... normal adjustment results in this chain being a bit "loose".

But the short answer is that attempting to get at this chain without a Service DVD, will likely result in you damaging your motor, which would be a shame since it is unlikely that this chain needs any adjustment in the first place.
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Old 02-28-2013, 01:49 PM
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Re: Idler washer removal, did it cure the noise, Did you adjust the oil pump chain?

here is a link

http://www.i-bmw.com/showthread.php?...oil+pump+chain

FWIW the bolts on the clutch housing are aluminum, and the Factory say to replace them every time,
I have removed my cover 3 times and used the same bolts,
you do want the aluminum bolts in the clutch housing,
as they provide a breakaway mode so not to damage the engine/transmission housing if the bike should fall onto the clutch housing,
the bolts are the weak link and thus they will shear and then damage will not be to the engine housing
My clutch cover cover is holding fine,
no bolts have been broken,
and there are no leaks,
so reusing the bolts can be done, as well as reusing the factory gasket.
The way I do mine are to get the bolts snug then turn them an additional 90 degrees.
I adjusted my chain so it has about 7 to 8mm of front to back travel on the front run of the chain,
when i inspected it there were marks on the housing that indicated the chain was hitting the housing.
Adjusting the chain is easy to do you would loosen the tensioner then move it till the chain tightens up to remove the slack,
then tighten the adjuster bolts for the tensioner.
Note the clutch housing doesnt need to be removed for this,
though the factory procedure is to put a tool on the drive spline and then turn the engine,
(This way does require the clutch housing to be removed and thats big job involving special tools)
And the procedure is very complicated for the resultant chain being as loose as mine was.
I adjusted mine by loosening the tensioner bolts and sliding the adjuster till the slack was removed , thats it.
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Old 02-28-2013, 04:26 PM
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Re: Idler washer removal, did it cure the noise, Did you adjust the oil pump chain?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrmerlin
I fitted a smaller washer and bell ring/grind has disappeared.
Out of curiosity, what did you have to remove other than the clutch cover, and how did you replace it (including which tools)?

By the way, I also reused the clutch cover bolts and metal/rubber gasket, and zero leaks. Torqued all aluminum bolts to the recommended 5Nm in 2 passes, until all 'clicked', since the first bolts loosen up a bit as the others are torqued. That's also why I prefer just torque, since all will be tightened the same after the second pass. Anyway, If they were critical bolts, I'd have replaced them, but they're not. All they have to do is avoid leaks. I checked all bolts' threads, and none were stretched. I'm sure they'd hold for at least another use.
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Old 02-28-2013, 05:55 PM
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Re: Idler washer removal, did it cure the noise, Did you adjust the oil pump chain?

read through this thread it has pictures of the tools i used to swap out the washer

http://www.i-bmw.com/showthread.php?...=k1300s+rattle
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  #7  
Old 03-10-2013, 11:32 AM
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Re: Idler washer removal, did it cure the noise, Did you adjust the oil pump chain?

I too have removed the clutch cover three times now and used the same bolts each time, torqued to 5nm. Also used the original gasket and have no oil leaks at all.
As for all the tools you need, I removed the clutch, replaced the washer and tensioned the oil pump chain with just ordinary workshop tools. Removing and replacing the clutch basket nut takes a few seconds with a pneumatic wrench with no need for the basket tool. All the other special tools may make the job slightly quicker but aren't essential.
I've done nearly 8,000 miles since I did this work with no problems at all with the engine and the rattle is virtually eliminated. Incidentally after some experimenting I ended up using a replacement washer with the original 40mm outside diameter but which was slightly thicker and a much closer fit on the shaft. Worked for me....
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Old 03-10-2013, 03:55 PM
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Re: Idler washer removal, did it cure the noise, Did you adjust the oil pump chain?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lfoggy
I too have removed the clutch cover three times now and used the same bolts each time, torqued to 5nm. Also used the original gasket and have no oil leaks at all.

....and each time you did, you stretched these aluminum bolts further!! Very unwise!

I've never understood why some folks think they know more than their bike than BMW does. BMW didn't specify the "Tighten to 3 Nm, then tighten a further 90" stretch-tightening sequence just for fun of it!
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  #9  
Old 03-10-2013, 06:18 PM
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Re: Idler washer removal, did it cure the noise, Did you adjust the oil pump chain?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RFW
....and each time you did, you stretched these aluminum bolts further!! Very unwise!

I've never understood why some folks think they know more than their bike than BMW does. BMW didn't specify the "Tighten to 3 Nm, then tighten a further 90" stretch-tightening sequence just for fun of it!
Bob:
I'm with you on this one. If I was on the road and had to make a repair that is one thing. I'm not saying you can't get away with it - many here have - but one thing I've learned over the years is one - if I know I'm doing it wrong - then something is going to fail - and as I've stated many times - I have zero tolerance for aggrevation and it takes no more time to do it the right way the first time - compared to who knows what when something goes wrong that I could have avoided.

The riders that do it and have no problems good for them - the ones that have problems - shame on them.
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  #10  
Old 03-10-2013, 06:49 PM
lfoggy lfoggy is offline
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Re: Idler washer removal, did it cure the noise, Did you adjust the oil pump chain?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RFW
....and each time you did, you stretched these aluminum bolts further!! Very unwise!

I've never understood why some folks think they know more than their bike than BMW does. BMW didn't specify the "Tighten to 3 Nm, then tighten a further 90" stretch-tightening sequence just for fun of it!

I doubt the tension in the aluminium bolts was ever high enough to exceed the material's elastic limit and plastically deform them. Anyway, the proof of the pudding is in the eating as they say.....
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Old 03-10-2013, 09:27 PM
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Re: Idler washer removal, did it cure the noise, Did you adjust the oil pump chain?

Have to agree with Bob and Bruce - for the minimal cost of new bolts, why even bother challenging the odds??

In response to the subject of this thread, I changed the washer and didn't need to tighten the cam chain as it was not loose - my bike also came with a the cam chain guard installed at factory (2011). Did it resolve the noise issue? yes - I still have some vibrations but very minimal compared to what I had before the washer replacement - this fix highly improved the discussed vibration issue for me.
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Old 03-11-2013, 01:34 AM
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Re: Idler washer removal, did it cure the noise, Did you adjust the oil pump chain?

Arctic, the cam chain is not the chain thats usually loose, except on startup when the oil pressure is low.

its the oil pump drive chain hidden behind the clutch basket.
careful inspection may reveal that the chain is hitting the engine case,
this will make noise.

FWIW regarding the aluminum bolts on the clutch housing,
the primary purpose for them is so that they will shear off if the clutch cover is hit, usually from a fall.
That said it would be nice to install new bolts every time they are removed,
but since cover removal may not be a one time occurrence,
swapping out 40.00 of bolts isnt really cost effective/
and without any proof testing of said bolts and what the ramifications of reusing them are,
I am am satisfied they can be reused without any ill effects.

That said I have had no issues with any of the bolts on the clutch cover doing anything else but holding the cover in place and no oil leaks.
Now maybe if we are talking replacing the Rod cap nuts or one time use head bolt studs this would be a more critical application,
For an external engine cover you can use the old bolts and everything will work perfectly.
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Old 03-11-2013, 02:07 AM
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Re: Idler washer removal, did it cure the noise, Did you adjust the oil pump chain?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrmerlin
That said I have had no issues with any of the bolts on the clutch cover doing anything else but holding the cover in place and no oil leaks.
That's right. And besides, 5Nm is NOT stretching the threads, and that's all it takes to keep the cover in place and prevent any leaks. The worst that could happen is a tiny leak, if at all. Some mechanical common sense goes a long way, since BMW also says not to change the exhaust, not to do any alterations to the motorcycle, and to only use geniune BMW parts and accessories .
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Old 03-11-2013, 03:53 AM
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Re: Idler washer removal, did it cure the noise, Did you adjust the oil pump chain?

Quote:
Originally Posted by elp_jc
That's right. And besides, 5Nm is NOT stretching the threads, and that's all it takes to keep the cover in place and prevent any leaks. The worst that could happen is a tiny leak, if at all. Some mechanical common sense goes a long way, since BMW also says not to change the exhaust, not to do any alterations to the motorcycle, and to only use geniune BMW parts and accessories .

BMW also fit a washer that's clearly the wrong size which many of us have replaced, presumably contrary to BMW advice!
Personally I prefer to rely on my own judgment when dealing with such decisions.....works for me.
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Old 03-12-2013, 01:55 PM
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Re: Idler washer removal, did it cure the noise, Did you adjust the oil pump chain?

Thanks Mmerlin - I don't why I keep on referring to the cam instead of the oil pump?! I've had other bikes with cam chain issues so I guess I'm not over it!
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Old 10-31-2018, 02:16 PM
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Re: Idler washer removal, did it cure the noise, Did you adjust the oil pump chain?

Old thread. Yesterday I was pulling the clutch. I have the slack oil pump chain syndrome. I also have the OEM adjusting tool. This thing is a slightly eccentric bushing that replaces the bushing and bearing for the drive sprocket. Slip that in, move the mark to point to the vertical stretch of chain on the right at 90 degrees. Snug up the chain guide and your done. You are also supposed to turn the chain a couple of revolutions to make sure all is good. I found a tight spot in my chain doing this so I ordered a new one and a fresh guide.

But if you don't have the tool, slack the guide and push it to the right easily with one finger and take the slack out of the left side chain. Snug down. If it is loose 3/16" in the middle or so your good.
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