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"KRS/GT" Technical Q&A K1200RS/GT Technical Questions/Answers

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  #1  
Old 07-09-2018, 04:44 PM
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Clutch bleeding ?

My book says to pull out a 'grub' screw and put in a bleeder screw/valve. then cycle the fluid as you would a brake line (simplified).
1) I am assuming a regular bleeder valve? Or do I need a 'speed' bleeder valve from Speed Bleeders Co.?
But what diameter valve? They are in different mm sizes if I remember correctly. I would like to be sure I have the right size around before cutting off a grub screw.
2) where is the line with the grub screw? what side do I start to pull apart to find it?

on the subject of brake fluid -
1) if I remember correctly, to see if two fluids are compatible, you can put a drop of one into the other and if it does not turn milky, they are fine. Yes? No?
2) to test for water in fluid you already have, just look to see if the fluid is clear or perhaps has water bubbles in it? Yes? No?
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Old 07-09-2018, 05:33 PM
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Re: Clutch bleeding ?

https://shop.maxbmw.com/fiche/NotesP...12330310_1.pdf This link will shed some light on the subject. The clutch bleed connection is secured to the right frame just above the foot rest. You can see it in the second picture in the area of the rear spring. Fitting size is 10mm.
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Old 07-09-2018, 06:01 PM
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Re: Clutch bleeding ?

10mm that helps. I hope Advance Auto has that size
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Old 07-11-2018, 12:59 AM
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Re: Clutch bleeding ?

I did not go to the link, but as I recall, I did not cut off the grub screw....rather, I remember it as unscrewing it at its base which is where the standard bleed screw then goes into. There was also the same odd contraption on the front brakes either on the K1200RS or the K1100RS.....easily removed and replace with a standard bleed screw for standard service.

Regarding the brake fluids, only a standard spec fluid would have been used by the factory and same by any reputable owner or shop since. The standard spec fluid will be compatible with any new fluid meeting these specs. No need to test if water is in that fluid, if it is brownish, ugly, or worse, flush it all out with new and be done with it. Gear oil does turn milky with water intrusion, not sure about brake fluid....
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Old 07-11-2018, 01:20 PM
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Re: Clutch bleeding ?

I just left the bleeder in the line and didn't bother replacing the grub screw, easier the next time around and no trouble with it for a dozen years or more.

One tip, when you pull the cover off the clutch reservoir, you'll notice a little hole in the bottom of the reservoir (same on the front brake reservoir). This lets fluid flow out of, and into, the reservoir. If you pull the lever quickly with the cover off, brake fluid will squirt out and land on what ever is in its way, and brake fluid is not a friend to paint. So, what I do is place a quarter over that little hole while bleeding the line. I remove it when I'm done and then top up the reservoir. Photo below. Also, avoid getting brake fluid in the threaded holes for the cover of the reservoir (I learned this the hard way.) If you do fluid will be forced out of those holes when you attach the cover and tighten the screws, and leak on nearby surfaces, again not good for paint.

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Old 07-15-2018, 01:52 PM
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Exclamation Re: Clutch bleeding ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Herb
https://shop.maxbmw.com/fiche/NotesP...12330310_1.pdf This link will shed some light on the subject. The clutch bleed connection is secured to the right frame just above the foot rest. You can see it in the second picture in the area of the rear spring. Fitting size is 10mm.

I just spent 1 1/2 hr looking for this bleeder port - not there. I even took off the narrow long cowling on the right side just under the seat - nothing.

Can it be elsewhere? I'm stuck. Only thing left is to go to the shop for the job
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Old 07-15-2018, 02:54 PM
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Re: Clutch bleeding ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CA1200
I just spent 1 1/2 hr looking for this bleeder port - not there. I even took off the narrow long cowling on the right side just under the seat - nothing.

Can it be elsewhere? I'm stuck. Only thing left is to go to the shop for the job

Check this video on YouTube - pay attention at 1:15 (min:sec) where he shows original position where this hose is normally tied (to frame) under long right fairing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzS9N27G2nc
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Old 07-15-2018, 03:08 PM
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Re: Clutch bleeding ?

Look at the crankcase cover on the right side of the machine. Next to the crankcase cover is the main frame, to the left when looking straight at it. The clutch vent line is zip tied to main frame in that area. Sorry can't find a picture.

Edit: Sailer beat me to it. I tried. The video shows it very well.
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Old 07-15-2018, 07:21 PM
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Smile Re: Clutch bleeding ?

well, found it. now to buy the bleeder. Auto parts store does not list a 'regular' bleeder buy just 10mm . I have to have more info on one. The video says "speed bleeder" so I believe they are actually referring to the brand - Speed Bleeder. Is this right?

So I will contact them to buy one asking for 10mm x 1.0 .
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Old 07-15-2018, 09:23 PM
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Re: Clutch bleeding ?

You could pull/remove the one from the rear caliper, (it's the correct size), use an ear plug to plug the hole while using it, reinstall when done. Won't lose any fluid...unless you actually push/step on the pedal.
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Old 07-16-2018, 12:42 AM
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Re: Clutch bleeding ?

Am I missing something? My old K1000RS bikes when you removed the allen screw from the fitting at the end of the bleed hose you could see a shiny ball bearing in there that is a check valve. The OEM grub screw worked in reverse of a normal bleed valve. You had to screw it IN to push on that ball bearing and OUT to let it seal for the let off stroke. I can see how a regular bleed valve or speedy bleeder could be used as it would seal rather than the bearing but if you unscrewed it too far the internal bearing would seal the device.
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Old 07-16-2018, 02:07 AM
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Re: Clutch bleeding ?

From memory...I use a speed bleeder for the process..yet have read somewhere(?), to file/grind down the bottom of the bleeder (which I have done)..not much, just to take the "tip" off of it. This allows it to function like a "normal" bleeder, where when snugged closed, the tip doesn't push that ball in, and allows one to actuate the lever a couple times without pushing out fluid till the bleeder has been opened/backed off.

No matter what, it's still kind of a three handed operation, yet once figured out, is a two handed exercise no matter what type of bleeder "valve" is used.

All I know, is when using the modified speed bleeder, it works like a "normal" bleeder.
Close to actuate the lever, Open to push fluid out, rubber band the lever to the grip while closing the bleeder. Actuate the lever a couple times, open the bleeder, actuate the lever, band it to the grip, close the bleeder....repeat till satisfied.

Might be incorrect, yet works on this side of the universe..
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Old 07-16-2018, 04:50 AM
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Re: Clutch bleeding ?

From memory... (yeah, me too) there is a fine groove around the tip of the speed bleeder to file down to. To be honest, I've been bleeding brakes for so long now I don't bother with the speed bleeder after I lost mine, and I can do all bleeders over the bike without help, just need to be careful and plan your moves.
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Old 07-16-2018, 10:36 AM
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Re: Clutch bleeding ?

Only reason to modify(grind) a regular 10mm bleeder is that it gives you some extra thread engagement on the filler adapter.

A regular unground bleeder can be used. But you only get one thread (if that) engagement before it starts pushing onto the ball valve thus opening the port.

Don't even need a bleeder for that job if you have a helper? Just someone that can push onto the ball valve with a tool when given the signal? Tool? A small wooden dowel?....skewer? Or whatever.....!
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Old 07-16-2018, 09:27 PM
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Re: Clutch bleeding ?

One of the best tips I picked up on when doing either clutch or brake bleeding on my K12's was to use SpeedBleeder's bag, and hang it up on something so it is higher than the fluid input point. That way there's little to no chance any air can get back into the system, as exiting fluid has to travel out the bleeder uphill.
I also put speedbleeders in the clutch bleed socket on both my bikes and left them there... simpler for future, but not really necessary using the bag method.
https://www.sportbiketrackgear.com/s...-and-hose-kit/ about $10 US
Asshats that import them to Oz want to charge around AU$45!!!!!
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Old 07-19-2018, 02:01 PM
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Re: Clutch bleeding ?

I no longer use the speedbleeders (they corroded too easily and plugged up here on the coast...), but I definitely use the uphill technique, though with a plastic catch bottle. Been doing that for 'forever'...great way to help avoid sucking air back in and for encouraging bubbles to exit, or at least making it easier...
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Old 07-19-2018, 07:54 PM
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Re: Clutch bleeding ?

Using PVC plumbers thread tape on the bleed nipple threads will greatly reduce leakage, seepage, and bubbles. Clutches and brakes.

+1 on the quarter in the reservoir. I just leave them in there, clutch and brake. No ill effects.
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Old 07-20-2018, 11:52 AM
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Exclamation Re: Clutch bleeding ?

can I clarify something.
I read on one 'reply' post in U-tube, to discard the fill thing on the end and just replace it with a 10mm 'Speed Bleeder' (SB) screw. That it was only for the very first filling in the factory. Take it off and replace it with the 'Speed Bleeder' screw and leave the new SB screw in place after done. No need to grind anything then.

If I have this correct, taking off the BMW factory thing on the end will allow fluid to escape when trying to put in the SB screw, so a person would have to work that out.
Does all of this sound right?
I haven't started yet and am wondering which way to go - grind the SB or pull the factory end???

AND - hang my SB bag higher than the reservoir?
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Old 07-20-2018, 11:55 AM
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Re: Clutch bleeding ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SKYGZR
rubber band the lever to the grip while closing the bleeder.

I like that.
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Old 07-20-2018, 12:09 PM
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Re: Clutch bleeding ?

[quote=CA1200]If I have this correct, taking off the BMW factory thing on the end will allow fluid to escape when trying to put in the SB screw, so a person would have to work that out.
Does all of this sound right?
I haven't started yet and am wondering which way to go - grind the SB or pull the factory end???[/quote=CA1200]

The "cap", visible in the image below, unscrews with an Allen wrench. Removing it will not allow fluid to escape. Inserting a bleeder after removing the cap presses on the ball in the end of the assembly and with the bleeder loose, and pulling the clutch lever will force fluid out of the bleeder. You can use either a speed bleeder, or a regular bleeder. I recall grinding the point of the end of the speed bleeder just enough to flatten it a bit and then when I'm done with the bleeding process, I just tightened the bleeder and left it in the line, its been like that for a dozen or more years now.



A standard bleeder in this photo shows that it is slightly flattened at its end, you just need to grind off the sharp point on the speed bleeder so it looks like this,

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Old 07-20-2018, 12:33 PM
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Exclamation Re: Clutch bleeding ?

[quote=CJS350]
The "cap", visible in the image below, unscrews with an Allen wrench. Removing it will not allow fluid to escape. I just tightened the bleeder and left it in the line, its been like that for a dozen or more years now.

Miscommunication I believe?.
What I meant by "taking off the BMW factory thing on the end ", was taking off the "cap" (whole factory end) as you call it. Not just the grub screw. The 'whole' thing in your photo (thank you for the photo) not just the grub screw in the end and just putting in a SB screw in its place.

Is that what you did?
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Old 07-20-2018, 02:14 PM
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Re: Clutch bleeding ?

I was referring to removing only the grub screw, or cap. The parts fiche refers to the larger part as a "Ventilation screw", the smaller part is called the "set screw". I meant remove only the "set screw", "grub screw" or "cap" whatever you choose to call it.
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Old 07-20-2018, 04:05 PM
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Re: Clutch bleeding ?

http://www.i-bmw.com/gallery/data/50...m/DSCN0914.JPG


Picture shows how mine came from the factory. All I did is put a 6 mm speed bleeder in the vent line, opened the bleeder and pumped the handle until bubble free fluid flowed, then closed the bleed screw.

Note: Speed bleeder mounted in the bleed hose. ( the inlet end is filed off, until a hole appears, to allow fluid to enter since the regular inlet is blocked by the hose) This way it can be used on every vehicle around the house.
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Last edited by Herb : 07-20-2018 at 04:10 PM. Reason: Added note
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Old 07-20-2018, 10:42 PM
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Smile Re: Clutch bleeding ?

OK, summing things up.

I bought a 'Speed Bleeder'(SB). I pulled the whole factory thing off ( they used red lock tight so it is hard to get off) and screwed in a 10mm SB w/o any mods to it. But I did add some plumbers tape to the threads. I then bleed the system like you were doing a brake job. Tightened the SB in the end and pulled the handle to see if any leaks - none. So it seems the factory end (the whole end) is not needed. No filing, no mods to the SB - just screwed it in after taking off the factory unit.
I then put the foam tube over the SB (as they had it over their unit) and it is a bit big in ID, so I used some elect tape to secure it.
A zip tie to put it back in place and I'm done .

Thank you all for your input .
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Old 07-21-2018, 12:51 AM
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Re: Clutch bleeding ?

That is what I did, both on the clutch for this bike and the right hand front brake on my K1100RS. Total removal and replacement with a standard bleeder. In each case, I was doing a full fluid replacement anyway and was able to keep the fluid from going all over the place relatively easily.
Happy wrenching!
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Old 07-21-2018, 05:29 PM
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Re: Clutch bleeding ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CA1200
[Miscommunication I believe?.
What I meant by "taking off the BMW factory thing on the end ", was taking off the "cap" (whole factory end) as you call it. Not just the grub screw. The 'whole' thing in your photo (thank you for the photo) not just the grub screw in the end and just putting in a SB screw in its place.
Is that what you did?

Yes you can remove the entire fitting on the end of the clutch line, which I did years ago after I stuffed the grub screw. Unscrew it and fit a regular bleeder or speed bleeder with dust cap. A very small amount of brake fluid will escape but catch it with a rag. Slide it back into the foam sleeve and zip tie back in place.
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Old 07-22-2018, 01:01 AM
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Re: Clutch bleeding ?

Just use a "wire tie" to tie it back..that way, no need to clip the zip when doing again..as a matter of (remembering again)...I may have just stuck it back close to where it's supposed to be & didn't even tie it off this year when I bled it....no matter...a wire tie works actually better than a zip...
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As of SEPT-2018,
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**Parked in the living room, waiting for possible restore**
'03K1200GT, 4th Owner,55,480mi. To replace the '85
**Miles Ridden since owned: 24,910
'96R1100RS,3rd Owner,80,310mi.
**Miles Ridden since owned: 49,510
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**Miles Ridden since owned: 10,350
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'00 K12RS ABS II & Clutch Bleeding nd4spd "KRS/GT" Technical Q&A 2 06-26-2010 03:07 PM


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