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"KRS/GT" Technical Q&A K1200RS/GT Technical Questions/Answers

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  #1  
Old 11-22-2018, 02:44 AM
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Quiltzig Quiltzig is offline
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Bike won’t start

OK, so my second bike has been parked up for over a year - battery charged regularly & on a solar charger to keep it topped up. I put fresh fuel in tank, checked battery and it was 13.2v.

Bike turns over very well, not sluggish at all, but bike won’t fire up. I connected GS911 and verified fuel pump was working and no fault codes (apart from Hall sensors of course).

Removed plastics to get at plugs etc. removed plugs and they were wet, so replaced them with another set, and tested for spark. Yes, good spark. Still bike won’t start. It cranks, but does not even try to fire. No splutter, nothing like an attemp to fire.

Yes, the kill switch is in the correct central position. I am wondering where to go from here. Any ideas?
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2004 K1200 RS "Brunhilde II" the German redhead. Ohlins, Speiglers, Corbin seat, GT screen, lotsa farkles.
2016 R9T - Wifes new ride, with Puig rear hugger, Wunderlich screen, knee pads, rocker head protectors.
1997 K1200RS - "Silver Fern" - rebuilt with 2002 motor.
1987 K75S Cafe Racer - Purple People Pleaser - 85kg lost.
1990 K75S Special edition - wifes tourer (SOLD in 2017)
2008 Moto Guzzi Breva 750 - wifes sport bike (sold 2018)
1996 K1100RS - Brunhilde I - (sold in 2007)
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  #2  
Old 11-22-2018, 03:04 AM
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Re: Bike won’t start

Hey Paul. I had exactly the same problem with my 2008 k12R. Everything showed up as fine. Fuel pressure on the GS-911wifi was fine and the bike turned over nicely but Just wouldn’t fire. Thinking that perhaps a fuel line had blown off inside the tank from the fuel pump I pulled the tank off and totally removed the fuel pump. No problems there. I then checked the fuel filter that attached to the fuel pump. All ok. Checked the fuel strip by removing from the tank drying it and re calibrating it on the GS-911wifi. Also drilled breather holes in the filler neck while I could. In short I could not find any problems. Put the bike back together and started it up. It fired up immediately. I have no idea what the problem was. I can only think of a dodgy electrical connection that was cleaned up by disconnecting and reconnecting. I was very self satisfied that I can fix a problem that I didn’t know existed by not knowing what I was doing. Sorry I can’t be more specific.
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  #3  
Old 11-22-2018, 03:48 AM
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Re: Bike won’t start

My 1997 RS once did exactly the same. I jumped it off from a car battery with the car's engine running. Fired up and never misbehaved again. Worth a try?

PS maybe unburnt fuel in cylinders has washed oil from around piston rings and so dropped compression a little?
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  #4  
Old 11-22-2018, 04:10 AM
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Re: Bike won’t start

I should add that I had another battery connected via jumper leads (so two batteries in total) just to be sure that I had enough grunt, as I know from experience that low battery voltages cause various issues with these bikes. I know it was flooded when I first tried to start it, because the plugs were all wet. New plugs should have solved that issue, but I will pull them and check again. Perhaps leaving them out overnight to allow the cylinders to dry out a bit might help?
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2004 K1200 RS "Brunhilde II" the German redhead. Ohlins, Speiglers, Corbin seat, GT screen, lotsa farkles.
2016 R9T - Wifes new ride, with Puig rear hugger, Wunderlich screen, knee pads, rocker head protectors.
1997 K1200RS - "Silver Fern" - rebuilt with 2002 motor.
1987 K75S Cafe Racer - Purple People Pleaser - 85kg lost.
1990 K75S Special edition - wifes tourer (SOLD in 2017)
2008 Moto Guzzi Breva 750 - wifes sport bike (sold 2018)
1996 K1100RS - Brunhilde I - (sold in 2007)
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  #5  
Old 11-22-2018, 04:21 AM
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Re: Bike won’t start

Hey Paul, the fuel pump might be (almost) toast. A bad pump can prime and pump a small amount of fuel, enough to wet the plugs but not enough to run the motor. I had this exact same problem after this last winter, in fact I discussed this with you on the phone, picking your brain for your thoughts. Turned out when I bench tested the pump it would run but was very sick. I have a fuel pressure gauge I'm happy to send up to you if you want to check the pressure.
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1987 K100RS Style. Black, Ohlins, Race Tech springs, Braided lines. Fully restored. 53,000 miles. SOLD
The family history:
1951 AJS 500 single - my Dads ride
1953 Triumph Terrier - my Mum's ride
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Old 11-22-2018, 04:31 AM
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Re: Bike won’t start

Richard the GS-911wifi gave a fuel pump reading of around 62 psi When mine failed to start and I’m sure Paul would have seen a fuel pump pressure output which would have given a clue to a failing fuel pump
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Old 11-22-2018, 04:47 AM
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Re: Bike won’t start

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt Howdy
Richard the GS-911wifi gave a fuel pump reading of around 62 psi When mine failed to start and I’m sure Paul would have seen a fuel pump pressure output which would have given a clue to a failing fuel pump

The GS911 for our bikes is not wifi and does not give a fuel pressure reading. I think it will read if the pump is working but not what the pressure is. In my case, and possibly in Paul's case also, the pump was working, and would pressurise during the ignition on sequence giving the impression all is well when the reality was a nearly dead pump. Wish it did read pressure as that would have saved so much pissing about with gauges etc.
__________________
Current rides:
2002 K1200RS. Owned from new. Pacific Blue, Ohlins, Speiglers, Fiamms, HID, Factory GT heated seat. 172,000km
1991 K1. Schwartz metallic black, fully restored. 74,000km SOLD
1987 K100RS Style. Black, Ohlins, Race Tech springs, Braided lines. Fully restored. 53,000 miles. SOLD
The family history:
1951 AJS 500 single - my Dads ride
1953 Triumph Terrier - my Mum's ride
1916 Triumph Type H, Battle of the Somme, France WW1 - my Granddads ride
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  #8  
Old 11-22-2018, 07:36 AM
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Re: Bike won’t start

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying Kiwi
Hey Paul, the fuel pump might be (almost) toast. A bad pump can prime and pump a small amount of fuel, enough to wet the plugs but not enough to run the motor. I had this exact same problem after this last winter, in fact I discussed this with you on the phone, picking your brain for your thoughts. Turned out when I bench tested the pump it would run but was very sick. I have a fuel pressure gauge I'm happy to send up to you if you want to check the pressure.
Had exact issue with a 1984 Toyota Celica. Mechanic was a shop teacher and saved the pump for a class lesson. Took him a few "attempts" to solve the issue.
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  #9  
Old 11-22-2018, 04:17 PM
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Re: Bike won’t start

I flooded mine not long ago.And had only been parked for 3 weeks.

Mind you I forgot to use the best start procedure for my old bike.That is jolt the throttle open/closed a couple times before hitting the start button.

But I cleared the flooding right up.Bike in gear/sidestand down,pull clutch and crack throttle wide open to introduce air in the cylinders and then crank away with fuel pump now off.

But yes pesky them fuel pumps.They'll seize from disuse.Info on that is mostly on the GSs side,lots of them GSs around with similar VDO pumps.Recommendation is to cycle the ignition once in a while on long term parked bikes to keep the pump from seizing.
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Yamaha RD200 at 16
Yamaha RD350 at 17
Honda CB750F at 18
Honda V45 Sabre at 24
85 BMW K100RS at 28 (Very nice and sorely missed)
90 BMW R100GS at 34 (Too slow, too cranky)
2003 K1200 RS at 53 (Oh Yeah......over 6000RPM)
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Old 12-02-2018, 01:59 AM
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Re: Bike won’t start

Update - finally received a new pump kit from EuroMotoelectrics last Thursday. FlyingKiwi had sent me a pressure gauge and it had confirmed that zero pressure was at the fuel rail.

Removed tank and saw that the base plate of the pump was quite distorted. Removed pump and saw what I call “footprints” - someone had been in here before as the breather hoses were crimped to their tubes with pieces of twisted wire.

After removing the pump assembly I also had to clean off some gunk that had been applied to the flanges. A little bit of panel beating was performed to get the base plate flat, the new pump, filter and hoses were fitted and it was slot it back into the tank and fill with a couple of litres of fuel to check for leaks. No leaks, so more fuel was poured in and the key turned... pump whirred and stopped... a welcome audible confirmation of functionality. Hit the starter and after a few stutters and stalls the bike started to smooth out and belch less smoke.

I think this problem was probably due to lack of use. Mental note to self... give all bikes a start up and small run every so often if you are not using them. The test ride confirmed that my backup bike is now functional!
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2004 K1200 RS "Brunhilde II" the German redhead. Ohlins, Speiglers, Corbin seat, GT screen, lotsa farkles.
2016 R9T - Wifes new ride, with Puig rear hugger, Wunderlich screen, knee pads, rocker head protectors.
1997 K1200RS - "Silver Fern" - rebuilt with 2002 motor.
1987 K75S Cafe Racer - Purple People Pleaser - 85kg lost.
1990 K75S Special edition - wifes tourer (SOLD in 2017)
2008 Moto Guzzi Breva 750 - wifes sport bike (sold 2018)
1996 K1100RS - Brunhilde I - (sold in 2007)
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  #11  
Old 12-02-2018, 11:16 AM
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Re: Bike won’t start

I went with a Bosch 69222 pump.Made in Brazil.Much cheaper than the aftermarket offerings and altough I had to make an adapter out of UHMW,that was easy installation.Available at most Autoparts,even here in my rather remote area? Ordered and got it the next day.
And just yesterday looked at the pump my buddy removed from his old Chevy truck.Eyeballed measurements for now and I'd bet I could install that in my bike.

Distorted flange? If that is the original tank,97-98 there is a service bulletin on that.Mainly on the plastic distorting if that is the bolted on flange?Possible repair but BMW sure updated the tanks later to the ones where the flange is held with a big plastic nut.

Pump seizing? I know the GS riders connect them reversed to a battery which changes the motor rotation.And in some cases that will free the pump.
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Benelli 50cc at 14
Yamaha RD200 at 16
Yamaha RD350 at 17
Honda CB750F at 18
Honda V45 Sabre at 24
85 BMW K100RS at 28 (Very nice and sorely missed)
90 BMW R100GS at 34 (Too slow, too cranky)
2003 K1200 RS at 53 (Oh Yeah......over 6000RPM)
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  #12  
Old 12-03-2018, 12:45 AM
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Re: Bike won’t start

I did consider trying to save the ltd pump, but the plastic was very brittle and the filter bag could not be removed without breaking the plastic - so the new one was the best option this time.
__________________
2004 K1200 RS "Brunhilde II" the German redhead. Ohlins, Speiglers, Corbin seat, GT screen, lotsa farkles.
2016 R9T - Wifes new ride, with Puig rear hugger, Wunderlich screen, knee pads, rocker head protectors.
1997 K1200RS - "Silver Fern" - rebuilt with 2002 motor.
1987 K75S Cafe Racer - Purple People Pleaser - 85kg lost.
1990 K75S Special edition - wifes tourer (SOLD in 2017)
2008 Moto Guzzi Breva 750 - wifes sport bike (sold 2018)
1996 K1100RS - Brunhilde I - (sold in 2007)
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