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"KRS/GT" Technical Q&A K1200RS/GT Technical Questions/Answers

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Old 03-09-2019, 07:51 PM
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Diving in to the main seal

Late to the party, but I'm headed straight to the dance floor.


Picked up this '02 a few weeks ago with 55k on it and a puddle underneath, although it would still self locomote. After much research on this site, I learned what I was getting myself into.


Finished all the extraction work today. Had the typical baked O ring, blued clutch components and oil flung around inside the bellhousing. Friction plate was dry and the slave looked like new.

Now the fun part; buying stuff.
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Old 03-09-2019, 08:16 PM
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Re: Diving in to the main seal

Awesome bike stand!!!
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Old 03-10-2019, 12:35 AM
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Re: Diving in to the main seal

Let me know if you want a Viton O-ring. (free)
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Old 03-10-2019, 10:18 AM
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Re: Diving in to the main seal

Hope it goes smoothly for you Nigel.
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Old 03-10-2019, 01:55 PM
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Re: Diving in to the main seal

Your off to a great start.



You got the differential/swing arm off and built a great stand.

Hints to consider?
Replace the slave while you are in there.
Mark the clutch, spring, pressure plate with a Sharpie before disassembly.
A Clymer repair manual helped me tremendously.
A 1/2" torque wrench is very useful.
I added a weep hole with a fitting and clear tubing for both the Slave and Bell housing.
This allows you to see any leakage before ruining the clutch.


Good Luck

I adde
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Old 03-10-2019, 03:02 PM
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Re: Diving in to the main seal

So, it's all out and in my lap, so to speak and I have a few questions.

1. I had to grip the clutch push rod with a pair of pliers and forcibly extract it, as it was fused to the diaphragm spring. This tells me the rod spins continuously while the engine is running and not just when the clutch is engaged, correct?. I presume there is a bearing of some sort inside the slave to allow this? Just curious, planning to put in a new slave regardless.

2. Since clutch components are sold separately, how does one assemble new components to make sure they are properly balanced? I'm sure complete clutch kits are available, but not from most vendors, and I'm not sure even the kits would be marked for proper balance. Are they just doing a better job of balancing the components now?
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Old 03-10-2019, 06:06 PM
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Re: Diving in to the main seal

Quote:
Originally Posted by Honey Badger
So, it's all out and in my lap, so to speak and I have a few questions.

1. I had to grip the clutch push rod with a pair of pliers and forcibly extract it, as it was fused to the diaphragm spring. This tells me the rod spins continuously while the engine is running and not just when the clutch is engaged, correct?. I presume there is a bearing of some sort inside the slave to allow this? Just curious, planning to put in a new slave regardless.

2. Since clutch components are sold separately, how does one assemble new components to make sure they are properly balanced? I'm sure complete clutch kits are available, but not from most vendors, and I'm not sure even the kits would be marked for proper balance. Are they just doing a better job of balancing the components now?


About item 1 above: you may have a dead or seized trust-bearing inside the slave. No parts are available separately, so you need / should buy a new slave. History of 15 years here on K1200RS forum (and also on K1200LT forum) show that these MAGURA clutch slave will last an average of 50,000 to 80,000 miles max.

In general, you can extend their life by going at the Slave to grease it about every 40,000 miles. There is no grease nipple, but it can be filled as much as possible where the push-rod enters the slave. Cheap preventive maintenance if you can do it yourself.

About item 2 above: When you buy a new outside clutch cover AND a new pressure plate, both of these come with a paint mark when new (high weight spot).
The issue becomes finding the original high-weigth paint mark at the clutch housing that you will keep (no need to replace).

If you can find the paint mark on clutch housing, then you are OK to bolts all these 3 at 120 deg apart. Otherwise, you will have to guess based on the number of drill holes they did at factory to try to balance the housing as much as they could...
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Old 03-10-2019, 08:58 PM
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Re: Diving in to the main seal

Ahh, makes sense. Thank you.
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Old 03-11-2019, 10:49 AM
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Re: Diving in to the main seal

I'm looking for a pic of the mark on the clutch carrier,I guess that is missing in my collection.Good size (1/2") creamy white paint mark.

If you can find some marks,one may be able to work out the missing ones.

Brand new Sachs replacement as in complete clutch pack from Germany at way less than BMW N/A prices from TTMoto.de(?) the marks are on the side of the plates.BMW OEMs are typically marked on the outside.

But in case of missing mark on the carrier?Rob sent his parts in for a clutch balancing last winter?There are a number of outfits out there that will do that and wouldn't cost much.

Paint mark on part of my new complete clutch pack,complete that is everything but the carrier and pushrod.


2019-03-11_07-27-13 by Pierre Begin - Flickr2BBcode
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Old 03-18-2019, 09:25 PM
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Re: Diving in to the main seal

Got my gen-you-wine Beech sanctioned Viton O-ring in the mail today. Looking forward to the day when it finds a home, spinning madly, at the heart of the K-machine. Thank you, Beech.

Parts are starting to trickle in; most are hung up on back order for a few more weeks. Gives me a little more time to study the reassembly process and poke around in a few other snake pits, like fuel and brake systems.


Was looking at the clutch parts I removed and notice the two pressure plates were marked as a set, but from the rear; a weak swatch of blue/purple paint. I also noticed there is not a mark on the carrier anywhere, but the three tabs have each been drilled to different degrees to remove some mass and make it balance. Might this indicate the carrier was probably precision balanced independently, while the clutch assembly was probably balanced as a unit, possibly prior to shipment to BMW?
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Old 03-18-2019, 11:59 PM
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Re: Diving in to the main seal

I was able to take the complete clutch assembly with new parts, bolt it together and put it on my tire balance machine. But I seriously suggest take the parts to an auto machine shop and they can match it all together and balance it to a nat's ass.
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Old 03-19-2019, 02:45 PM
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Re: Diving in to the main seal

Plates marked as a set? If not 120 degrees apart that would make finding/marking the other reference point on the carrier difficult.I think I remember blue marks from my O-ring job on the K100RS but so long ago all fading away.

Clutch balancing? Something like that shouldn't cost too much:

https://youtu.be/VkCDQQL12YI
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Old 03-21-2019, 07:53 PM
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Re: Diving in to the main seal

So, I also ordered the intake Orings, not because I think I have problems there, but from reading here it might be something to do along with the clutch replace. Should I finish up the driveline before starting a TB overhaul or should I do the TB work now before the clutch, etc starts going back in?
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Old 03-21-2019, 09:13 PM
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Re: Diving in to the main seal

Easier to pull and install the breather hose with the engine down or frame up.

I just did all that TB cleaning...O-rings and mostly an inspection of the rubber manifolds.Pretty good shape them rubber manifolds at just about 170,000 miles,must be the Red Rubber grease I have applied to them at different intervals going back 10yrs ago?Breather/distribution hose was also in good shape from the grease when I replaced it with a DIY copper one a few years ago.Now bulletproof....!

And freshly cleaned/serviced injectors balanced at 0 %.Vroom...!
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2003 K1200 RS at 53 (Oh Yeah......over 6000RPM)
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Old 03-22-2019, 12:25 PM
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Re: Diving in to the main seal

Red Rubber grease specs:
http://redrubbergrease.com

Hard to find in the US/Canada.But yes Penrite LUB167 from California?$21.00 USD for 500gr.That's quite a few lifetime supplies for most,my similar can of UK Millers is at about 300gr and that is after passing on quite a few samples over the years.

https://www.restorationstuff.com/eco...uucmm0dmhd2ce3
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2003 K1200 RS at 53 (Oh Yeah......over 6000RPM)
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Old 03-23-2019, 11:55 AM
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Re: Diving in to the main seal

Everyone should have a can Here is a quick USA source but I noticed not so easy to find in Canada.

https://www.amazon.com/GENUINE-Corro...59645110&psc=1
Here it is for the UK:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Granville-0...s%2C302&sr=8-1


What's up with Canada?
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Old 03-23-2019, 12:33 PM
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Re: Diving in to the main seal

Ok, so you talked me into doing a quick refurb of the TB's (lulz). Here's my first hurdle:

Going through the Clymer to remove the air box and am instructed to remove the 4 clamps holding the airbox to the TB. Problem is, the front 2 clamps are oetiker's and the back two are screw type/reuseable. Should I be lowering the engine at this point and leave the airbox in place?

Edit: Doing a quick search, I've found a few threads that describe what I'm seeing, so I'll study those and keep plodding along. We'll see what happens.


And, BTW, lots of RRG suppliers on Ebay, but as noted, none based in CA.
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Old 03-23-2019, 01:30 PM
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Arrow Re: Diving in to the main seal

Them clamps are repleacable with the same size screw on as found on the other stubs.Just have to watch their orientation so they don't hit the throttle/CC arms.

The 4 Bootlicker clamps just below the TBs can also be loosened some at the crimp with a small screwdriver and unclamped with same screwdriver.Then just a matter of loosening the crimp further on the bench with small needle nose pliers,make sure they are still round then reinstall so the little hook goes into the first retainer.No need for tools....just good thumbs. Then recrimp tighter with a smallish pair of end cutters.

The rubber tends to crack right at or just below the clamps.So only way to lube that area properly is to remove the clamps and RRG.
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Old 03-23-2019, 04:10 PM
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Re: Diving in to the main seal

If they are factory original they are not Oetiker but a type called clickit. They have notches that lock together as the outer piece slips over the under piece. They are hard to get to with the proper pliers so you need a strong long reach needle nose plier. Squeeze the over lap together a little more to release tension on the holding lock parts and pull up on the top piece with an O-ring pick. It's tough to get them back together but reverse the procedure and its done. And watch out for the two hose clamp types so nothing gets in the way of the fuel rack.
Here is a short thing on Click clamps:
https://www.vehicleservicepros.com/i...r-click-clamps
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Old 03-24-2019, 01:01 PM
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Re: Diving in to the main seal

OEMs say OET PAT.Not Oetikers...Bootlickers? BootClickers then?


2019-03-24_09-50-21 by Pierre Begin - Flickr2BBcode




That's for the upper ones,rubber manifolds to TBs.I'd have to look at my spares but I don't think they can,or should be replaced with screw on,there are a few clearance issues there.


2019-03-24_09-54-11 by Pierre Begin - Flickr2BBcode




Step one....loosen the crimp a little with the screwdriver sideways.Only if required,they may unclamp without any pre-loosening.

Step 2? Unclick with same screwdriver.

Step 3? Straighten up the Vs at the crimp to loosen them further with the needle nose.

Ready to click back in place by hand but mostly thumbs. And tighten the clamp at the crimp with the appropriate tool.Pretty sure them small end cutters are from Harbor Freight.If not they are from Princess Auto for the Canadians....!
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Benelli 50cc at 14
Yamaha RD200 at 16
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Honda CB750F at 18
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2003 K1200 RS at 53 (Oh Yeah......over 6000RPM)
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Old 03-24-2019, 01:20 PM
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Re: Diving in to the main seal

And just why one housekeeping in/around the TBs should remove the Bootclickers and the manifolds from the TBs and inspect.Cracked just under the upper clamp and all 4s the same.Them have less than 40Ks.I must have tossed the ~30Ks ones, they were in much worse shape than that.Rubber was hard as a rock...!


2019-03-24_10-10-29 by Pierre Begin - Flickr2BBcode
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Yamaha RD200 at 16
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Honda CB750F at 18
Honda V45 Sabre at 24
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90 BMW R100GS at 34 (Too slow, too cranky)
2003 K1200 RS at 53 (Oh Yeah......over 6000RPM)
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Old 03-24-2019, 03:07 PM
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Re: Diving in to the main seal

Getting the clicket clamps off was a piece of cake compared to the screw clamps, once I broke the code. Working on a plan to make reassembly just as easy, I hope. If it works, I'll post it.
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Old 03-25-2019, 08:58 AM
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Re: Diving in to the main seal

As everyone has said, Id also take a picture of just how the clamps are positioned exactly onto the TB, if you do not put clamps in same position you risk haveing the movement getting hug up on the clamps once you open the throttle.
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