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"K12S/KR" Technical Q&A K1200S/R Technical Questions/Answers

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  #1  
Old 03-31-2019, 03:19 PM
mondrage mondrage is offline
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Clutch action not actuating when pushing hard

Yesterday I gave the K12S a good push to 140mph.
Missed a couple of shifts because the clutch lever wouldn’t do anything.
When slowing down I couldn’t get the clutch disengaged to shift down.
After a few more tries it did. Had to pump it until I got pressure.
The adjusted the lever to a higher position so I could move the lever more.

What could it be?
Air in the slave cylinder?
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  #2  
Old 04-01-2019, 01:11 PM
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Re: Clutch action not actuating when pushing hard

I might buy a K13 slave cylinder and plunger. See what happens.
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  #3  
Old 04-01-2019, 01:34 PM
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Re: Clutch action not actuating when pushing hard

Try bleeding the clutch line: Tie the lever back to the grip over night. In the morning remove the reservoir cover and work the lever while tapping on the side of the reservoir. You will see small bubbles rise and the lever firm up. Sometimes takes two nights. Did you have the system open? Something caused this trouble. Maybe the slave cylinder is failing as you suspect. If you change the cylinder out, you will need to do a serious bleed. I fill from the bottom nipple on the slave with a syringe designed for the work (Phoenix tools). You may have to buy a nipple to fit here as it does not come on new construction. My replacement did come with a nipple for filling and bleed. Don't use any equipment that had brake fluid in it before. Contamination will cause trouble.
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  #4  
Old 04-01-2019, 03:01 PM
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Re: Clutch action not actuating when pushing hard

Beech, that bike has been apart so many times.
I think I didn't bleed the slave cylinder properly last time.
Do you have a link for the Phoenix syringe?


I will use the change to route the clutch line properly. When I replaced the engine, I left it outside. Looks awful.
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  #5  
Old 04-02-2019, 12:40 AM
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Re: Clutch action not actuating when pushing hard

Here is a cheap version, the next step up is 83$. I think this will do the job as it is only once maybe later too.

https://www.amazon.com/Phoenix-Syste...49-spons&psc=1
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  #6  
Old 04-09-2019, 12:19 AM
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Re: Clutch action not actuating when pushing hard

Yes,,, My first thoughts were that you had air in the line or the master cylinder. Give it a good bleed. REMEMBER!!!!!!!! It takes a SPECIAL fluid. DO NOT use brake fluid. I believe it takes DOT 5 which is pure SILICONE .

Silicone fluid has an affinity for AIR. DO NOT shake the bottle before you use it.

Please let us know how you make out with the fill and bleed.


Bill
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  #7  
Old 04-09-2019, 12:27 AM
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Re: Clutch action not actuating when pushing hard

STOP, it does not use DOT5 brake fluid, no bmw uses it in clutch or brakes. The alternate fluid BMW has moved to is MINERAL OIL. Available at auto parts stores, bmw shops and bicycle shops. Read the cover of your clutch reservoir, it will tell you what to use.
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Old 04-09-2019, 09:02 AM
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Re: Clutch action not actuating when pushing hard

Beech

THANK YOU for the back up and correction. Yes, I should have looked for the correct fluid but, I know it doesn't take regular DOT 3-4!

Bill
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  #9  
Old 04-12-2019, 04:42 PM
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Re: Clutch action not actuating when pushing hard

Try an Oberon slave cylinder even bigger bore than the 1300 item.
[IMG]http:// [/IMG]
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  #10  
Old 04-18-2019, 09:57 PM
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Re: Clutch action not actuating when pushing hard

They’re $120. The Oberon item.
Would that be a good upgrade ?

Also, where can I buy bleed niples?
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  #11  
Old 04-19-2019, 12:58 PM
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Re: Clutch action not actuating when pushing hard

So, what's the difference between the eBay's Oberon cylinders at $120 and the Pirate's at $180?
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  #12  
Old 04-19-2019, 01:01 PM
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Re: Clutch action not actuating when pushing hard

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beech
STOP, it does not use DOT5 brake fluid, no bmw uses it in clutch or brakes. The alternate fluid BMW has moved to is MINERAL OIL. Available at auto parts stores, bmw shops and bicycle shops. Read the cover of your clutch reservoir, it will tell you what to use.




Yeah, I know.
I bought years ago, a bunch of BMW blue mineral oil little bottles.
The mineral oil in this bike is completely black.
The other ones not so much, as they are newer.


I always wondered why BMW used DOT4 in the clutch for the LT. Which kinda makes sense. If the slave cylinder fails, I'm guessing DOT4 is not as bad as mineral oil for the dry clutch as in the R12GS (which I've already replaced the slave cylinder).
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BMW R1200GS 2008
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BMW R1200R 2009 (in my stable, thinking about it...)
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Old 04-19-2019, 10:11 PM
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Re: Clutch action not actuating when pushing hard

Seals can go bad in the slave cylinder or the master cylinder.

If there is leakage around the slave seal, I would imagine the level in the reservoir would drop.

I would see if you can replace the seals in the slave first. If that doesn't work, maybe a rebuild kit for the clutch master.

It's not a particularly high temp or high pressure system. The loss of pressure/fluid must be pretty significant for it to fail to disengage the clutch, I would guess.
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Old 04-20-2019, 07:35 AM
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Re: Clutch action not actuating when pushing hard

When the slave cyl fails, the hydraulic fluid will travel down the push rod to the clutch and then it begins to slip, badly. I'd bet this would happen with DOT4, mineral oil, or anything else. The solution is a weep hole in the slave cyl housing. It won't prevent the slave cyl from failing but it will save the clutch and the tranny input and output seals.

The tiny ball bearing in the slave cyl piston (the "throw-out bearing") is under load and turning with the crankshaft at all times. It is under a lighter load without the clutch engaged but it is still turning. That is a lot of revolutions for a very small bearing and when it fails it spins the piston which destroys the slave cyl piston seal. With no weep hole that means a new clutch and tranny seals, too. For my money and time, I'll replace the complete slave cyl every time with the best quality unit available. FWIW.
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  #15  
Old 04-20-2019, 08:50 AM
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Re: Clutch action not actuating when pushing hard

No leakage.
Just that the slave cylinder has no bleed nipple.
So, when I replaced the engine , I didn’t bleed it properly.
Must be air in the system.
Just have to bleed it.

Will try to procure a bleed nipple.
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BMW K1200LT 2006
BMW K1200R: "Drophammer" 2006
BMW R1200GS 2008
BMW K1200S 2007
Suzuki DR-Z400E 2000 (SOLD - rebought), Honda CB550Four 1978 (SOLD)
BMW R1200R 2009 (in my stable, thinking about it...)
-----------------------------------------------------
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  #16  
Old 04-20-2019, 10:31 AM
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Re: Clutch action not actuating when pushing hard

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowndes
When the slave cyl fails, the hydraulic fluid will travel down the push rod to the clutch and then it begins to slip, badly. I'd bet this would happen with DOT4, mineral oil, or anything else. The solution is a weep hole in the slave cyl housing. It won't prevent the slave cyl from failing but it will save the clutch and the tranny input and output seals.

The tiny ball bearing in the slave cyl piston (the "throw-out bearing") is under load and turning with the crankshaft at all times. It is under a lighter load without the clutch engaged but it is still turning. That is a lot of revolutions for a very small bearing and when it fails it spins the piston which destroys the slave cyl piston seal. With no weep hole that means a new clutch and tranny seals, too. For my money and time, I'll replace the complete slave cyl every time with the best quality unit available. FWIW.






Isn't that why they specify mineral oil? Because it is compatible with motor oil and won't damage the clutch or engine?
Otherwise why not use DOT fluid... I thought it was because of the possibility of this leakage internally.
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  #17  
Old 04-20-2019, 11:35 AM
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Re: Clutch action not actuating when pushing hard

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowndes
When the slave cyl fails, the hydraulic fluid will travel down the push rod to the clutch and then it begins to slip, badly. I'd bet this would happen with DOT4, mineral oil, or anything else. The solution is a weep hole in the slave cyl housing. It won't prevent the slave cyl from failing but it will save the clutch and the tranny input and output seals.

The tiny ball bearing in the slave cyl piston (the "throw-out bearing") is under load and turning with the crankshaft at all times. It is under a lighter load without the clutch engaged but it is still turning. That is a lot of revolutions for a very small bearing and when it fails it spins the piston which destroys the slave cyl piston seal. With no weep hole that means a new clutch and tranny seals, too. For my money and time, I'll replace the complete slave cyl every time with the best quality unit available. FWIW.


You need to be sure to identify the model bike for readers. This is true for the inline brick engine but the K13S and same type bikes have a throw out bearing in the clutch plate retention plate that is fairly large and has splash oil. This thread has a bit of both styles of engines going on.
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Beech Arriba, Abajo, Al Centro, Adentro
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K1300S
S1000R
I need a Honda sport or better yet a Monkey
I change your tires, you buy them on the web, I do the work $40, trying to keep riders on the road.
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